In assuming most men going on holiday alone to Thailand, are going to have sex with prostituted women or men?

[Grennie]

It is estimated that about 1% of Thailand's GDP is earned through sexual exploitation tourism.

In 2003 (the last year for which full figures are available) some 545,000 British residents arrived on visits. If you remove the children, and the British citizens visiting for business or reasons other than a holiday, you arrive at about 489,000—314,000 men and 175,000 women. That is 139,000 more British men than women coming to Thailand for a holiday—a gap of 28 per cent.

In no other international holiday destination, is there such a big difference in the number of women and men travelling there. There is no obvious reason for this apart from prostitution.

do you know, no one has ever announced to me that

they were a rapist
used class a drugs
were racist

etc etc etc

and yet, i can accept that people who do these things exist. even if they don't announce it to all they meet. especially if they think they will be judged.

i don't know whether to laugh or cry at the idea that because no one has bragged to you about paying for sex, they couldn't possibly have done so

Holly

That is part of the problem. Part of the problem is the normalisation going on (including on this thread) of large numbers of men travelling abroad to rape women and children. There's been very little opportunity to develop the discussion in more depth because of the people, primarily you, howling NAMALT since the beginning of the thread. Over and over again.

incredible.

Fine - most men who go to Thailand go for sex.

Happy.

And I'll STFU up about what I really think so you can talk about the sex industry.

Happy.

Oh put your dummy back in FFS.

i would be interested to hear from the women involved- research tends to focus on why men do it, what kind of men do it, etc. i am not really interested.

i would like to know how the women see their work.

i also think that various interests have made a big thing about speaking for women- it comes down to either it is a liberating choice or they are victims, and the voices of women themselves are lost.

i think the sex trade is also a place where racist, colonialist tropes thrive, and it is impossible to divorce the experiences of a given individual from that context

Amazing posts FloraFox.

As a woman who was once a girl, and the mother of a daughter they really resonate

I'd make the same assumptions.

There's nothing to suggest to the contrary.
It's an anomaly that isn't explained logically by anything else
It's not going to be statistically proven given the nature of these holidays as most men aren't likely to admit the true reason for their visit
I've seen plenty of evidence myself when in Thailand

Of course, I do know plenty of men who have been to Thailand who have gone for legitimate reasons but they are very much a minority so if I was to extrapolate based entirely on my own experiences, I'd say that yes, the majority of males travelling alone to Thailand are going simply to enable them to indulge in prostitution. Or as they prefer to call it, shopping for a wife.

I think it goes on everywhere. We were in amsterdam new year, fab city. Sex tourism is very upfront there. Ads in push hotel brochure for 'room service' which I'm sure is vey popular during business conferences.

But many tourists just want to see The Night Watch. DP went when he was 17 but just wanted to go clubbling and dabbling in recreational drugs.

It's not a Thai or 'Asia' problem. It goes on everywhere.

Thanks Ledaire

Looking at your figures again Grennie, it says they took out the children but I wonder if they also took out the adults who were with the children and what impact that would have on the numbers. Although the difference is 28% of the total number of travellers, there were actually 179 men for every 100 women, not as Holly said upthread 128 men for every 100 women. That's a shocking number.

We need to do more to stop this happening at our end. We need to stop the creeping normalisation of this type of behaviour and challenging men who travel to places like Thailand is part of it.

something else- weren't grennie's figures tourists only- people there o business removed?

Yes business people are removed. Although of course some of them will also use prostituted women and girls.

I used to live in Bangkok and have a lot of family there, one of whom is an ex-bar girl.
I think I pretty much agree with the op, sadly.

Agree with OP too. Also sadly.

Dilbert

Seriously???

"Actually Math - it was nothing to do with defending the reputation of men who go to Thailand alone.
It was challenging the sexist assumption that most lone men who go to Thailand are there for sex.
Sexist assumptions need challenging. Or is it right that people can make statements and not defend them with proof."

I can't for the life of me see the difference Holly. Just because an assumption involves members of one sex in particular doesn't make it sexist.

"Just because an assumption involves members of one sex in particular doesn't make it sexist."

Replace that with the word race or disability and that makes things racist and disabilist. Or can't women make sexist statements generalising about men?

Yes - Dilbert His point was some people take something you say and then turn it into an absolute. Just like putting the word "only" in a statement when you never said that. It may be a comic strip but it makes a valid point about how people twist and misinterpret things in arguments. Something you see a lot of on MN.

No Holly replace "members of one sex" with "white people" or "able-bodied people" and you will see the nonsense you are talking. You cannot neutralise sexism. Sexism is discrimination against women, not against "people".

I suppose the Oxford English Dictionary is wrong?

"prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex:"

well, there are some people who probably think sexism is saying mean things about men just as some people think racism is saying mean things about white people.

it reduces real genuine oppression which limits life and causes harm to the level of childish insult.

some people who do this no doubt do so out of a misguided sense of 'fairness' but in other cases i think it is actually quite strategic

lol at using a dictionary quote

like, you may have lived your whole life with the sharp end of sexism against your neck, but your knowledge of sexism is void because dictionary

i asked you in an earlier post Holly if you had been to Thailand

if so how could you be so unaware. where there is tourists/travellers from pattaya to the small less trouristy islands to chang mai that are full of peaceful retreats there is lots of sex for sale, some places more than others because there is such a market for it unless all these women (and some men) are just living in hope of course