to think worship has no place in a school?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

By all means - talk about what people of faith believe in, use examples from their books as moral examples, use example of people with no faith etc. Lots of good opportunities for "doing the moral thing" and talking about right and wrong.

But keep "collective worship" out of it. If a child wants to pray, they can do it at their own time.

Yes - people can opt out. Children can sit there and contemplate. But it's difficult to opt out. Surely opting in rather than assuming that children want to pray to a God they really do not understand is better.

But it's compulsory - and in theory, OFSTED will look to see if your school is doing this:

" All maintained schools in England must provide a daily act of collective worship. This must reflect the traditions of this country which are, in the main, broadly Christian.

Parents have the right to withdraw their child from the daily act of collective worship and sixth-formers can decide for themselves whether or not to attend, without giving a reason for doing so. Schools must comply with this wish and must ensure a duty of care for pupils who are withdrawn from collective worship."

(I seem to be on a bit of a vent at the moment [grin[)

I tell mine I cant believe in god I dont understand how there is an all being that we must worship and pray too, does not mean that they cant believe in god if they want too, what if you tell children there is a god they disbelieve you (the general you) do you still push it and push it till they believe

And where will your children get the experience of worship that will enable them to make an informed choice? Christianity isn't about assent to propositions, it's about what you do.

Actually nimminy what if your dc's see a Christian doing something bad or a Muslim or atheist being super dooper kind? If you don't have the monopoly on niceness (which you don't) how can you use it as a proof of the validity of your beliefs. My dc's see that loveliness and goodness and bravery and honestly and all those marvellous traits that we value are human traits and don't belong to any specific group.

mrsjay, you must have missed the bit where I said that I can't get inside their minds and control their brains! The thing that will weigh the most with them is the example I give. As with everything, it's what you do that really counts, not what you say.

So we need to worship all 4000 gods to make an informed choice. So you've worshiped all available gods Nimminy?

My experience of aethist parents was that they did not tell me there was no God. They explained what many people believe, but that no one can really know, and it was up to me what I believe. I actually chose to go to Sunday school for years and considered getting confirmed. I think we should recognise that children are individuals who have a right to make up their own mind.

Being nice is lovely and great, and certainly isn't confined to Christians. Being brave and kind and honest are all good and available to anybody. But really being changed by your faith is both more and less than that: it's living your life with God at the centre, not your own wishes and desires, and being sustained by a hope beyond this world, and being part of a Christian community that is trying to live out the values of our faith. It's prayer and worship and praxis.

I'm a Catholic and I agree with the OP. I think you should make up your own mind.

I used to go to church on my own go to sunday school and be in a christian youth group then decided that god wasnt for me,

that is al great nimin just not every day at school worship should be done with family and friend not every day at school

I agree with religious education, and in many schools that includes visiting a church, mosque, etc. But I do not agree that children at school should be forced to attend an act of worship on a regular basis. The state and religion should be separate.

as far as I am aware a lot of schools in England are C O E schools so parents have no choice to send children their maybe schools should break away from churches or is that the other way around

oh yes I dont disagree with R E in schools

There are lots of great stories and messages that can come from religious stories. Of course there are stories that have a message without a religious theme and we can ignore some of the stories which are a bit dubious.

Assembly can be a great place to discuss this. To learn from all religions. To try and lead a "moral" life - or to have an opportunity to discuss issues.

But no need for prayers. Quiet reflection.

And it's crap that children have to be excluded from this. Maybe children who want to pray should be taken out and given time to pray to their God - be it the God of the Bible, Hindu Gods or Odin.

And think of how crap it feels as a child to be taken out of an assembly because their parent does not want their child to have to take part in an act of worship. Children hate being excluded and singled out in this way.

niminypiminy I asked if you'd be ok with compulsory worship of hinduism and basically you say no and go on about this being a christian country.
and you say Shall we confine ourselves to discussing the situation that actually obtains?

I can see why you don't want that talked about. Because you're admitting that you want other people's children to be forced to worship god, but only your god. That is no big surprise.

Oh and I still think people who are atheists tell their children there is no God, even if they don't sit down with them every evening and discuss his non-existence.

But that's not what you said the first time is it.

No one should be expected to worship.

No child should be expected to worship.

Isn't that a human right?

Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Religious Education is fine because the Bible, Torah, Koran and plenty of other religious texts are vastly important, historically and culturally, in terms of understanding how societies have developed and how they behave and interact now.

And Moral Education is important, as it should provide time for children to discuss and learn in groups about how they engage with those around them.

I used to think 'praying in schools, bah - no big deal.' But, as a Catholic, when I have DCs I wouldn't want to send them to a school which had Church of Scotland as its religious backdrop because there are big differences and there are real reasons (for me) why I'm Catholic. Church of Scotland is not who I am culturally at all. Not having DCs, I don't know how I'd explain to them that I'm Catholic, but they don't need to be. I hardly ever go to mass anyway, so I don't know how I'd necessarily bring up the whole religion question. But I wouldn't see any point in saying choose your own path if the only choice other than Catholic school would be one that encouraged them to observe C of S doctrine (if that's even the right word).

I said 'taught' the first time, and 'told' the second: and the difference is?

In any case, children of atheists can be taught by precept that there is no God precisely because they are not taken to places where God is worshipped, and because God forms no part of the normal conversation in their homes.

I'd be happy with compulsory Hindu worship, as it happens, because I have confidence in my own beliefs and in my ability to talk through the differences between what I believe and what they were experiencing in assembly. But perhaps atheists do not share that confidence.

But why should there be worship anyway?
Why should there be a worship in school?
Why not at work? In the office?

"In any case, children of atheists can be taught by precept that there is no God precisely because they are not taken to places where God is worshipped, and because God forms no part of the normal conversation in their homes. "

No - there is a difference between not being taught about God and being taught there is no God.

One is passive, one is active.

I'm sure there's lots of things you have not told your DC about. But have you told them actively they do not exist.?