to think worship has no place in a school?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

By all means - talk about what people of faith believe in, use examples from their books as moral examples, use example of people with no faith etc. Lots of good opportunities for "doing the moral thing" and talking about right and wrong.

But keep "collective worship" out of it. If a child wants to pray, they can do it at their own time.

Yes - people can opt out. Children can sit there and contemplate. But it's difficult to opt out. Surely opting in rather than assuming that children want to pray to a God they really do not understand is better.

But it's compulsory - and in theory, OFSTED will look to see if your school is doing this:

" All maintained schools in England must provide a daily act of collective worship. This must reflect the traditions of this country which are, in the main, broadly Christian.

Parents have the right to withdraw their child from the daily act of collective worship and sixth-formers can decide for themselves whether or not to attend, without giving a reason for doing so. Schools must comply with this wish and must ensure a duty of care for pupils who are withdrawn from collective worship."

(I seem to be on a bit of a vent at the moment [grin[)

If a child is brought up in a vegetarian household never having eaten meat inside or outside the home, and being taught if not by precept then by example that eating meat is wrong, how much of a real choice do they have? Children of atheists are normally taught that there is no God. If they do not get a chance to experience worship for themselves what real choice do they have? I personally would be very happy for my (Christian) children to experience the worship of other faiths, since I have confidence in my own values and my ability to talk though what my children experience with them and help them to understand it. But perhaps atheists are not so confident?

Nimminy. My local and well attended baptist church has links to this on its front page.

Creation Science

"Children of atheists are normally taught that there is no God"

Are they? My DS knows that I do not believe in a God. It is up to him to make that choice about faith when he is older.

Unlike other faiths which tell their children what to believe and make them attend worship every weekend or evening after school and give them no choice what to believe.

I don't tell me kids there is no god because I can't honestly say that can I. I do say I don't have any evidence for it though.

I don't like that site any more than you do, headinhands. It certainly doesn't represent what I understand to be mainstream Christian thinking in this country.

And I don't take DS to a place which states there is no God, which has people talking about there being no God and then expecting him to think there is no God. I don't expect his school to promote the absence of God and to sing hymns saying God does not exist.

But I live in a country where state and religion are mixed.

Even our Monarch and future monarchs are expected to be believers. Or to pretend to be believers.

"Children of atheists are normally taught that there is no God" - no, I think like most atheists, I explain to my children that I don't believe in god, but a lot of people do, and it is up to them to decide (so far, despite being exposed to lots of 'worship' at school, they have both decided they don't believe in any religion). I also happen to be vegetarian. I don't cook meat at home, but both my children know that if they want to try eating meat elsewhere, I will not stop them.

Most Christians, on the other hand, seem to tell their children very firmly that god exists, and do their best to make sure that their children grow up sharing their beliefs, and reinforce that with external influences, eg through baptism, Sunday school, church schools etc.

We plough the fields and scatter
GM seed on the fen
And it is fed and watered
With liquid nitrogen.
We spray the fields around us
with foliar nutrients
And keep the snow away with
Polytunnel tents

All good gifts around us
BOGOF in supermarts
So thank DEFRA, Tesco and Co
For burgers, pies and tarts.

In fact, we don't really mention God. Or fairies. Or Leprechauns.

It's not just Christians that tell their children God is real and enforce it. I work in a lot of schools with Muslim children and they have a strong faith. No doubt because of their parents.

Blu

The issue I have is how powerful it is for children to hear this repeated message from trusted adults. They're not saying 'this god might exists' when they're asking the kids if they would like to pray to it are they. They are presenting it as fact. That's the problem.

There should be no worship in schools any more than there is in supermarkets or theatres, schools are for education.

Teaching about religion in school is fine and of course parents can teach their child about religion and take them to church.

Any religious worship is going to be one-sided anyway. There are far too many even if you did a different one daily and that's not what happens anyway. It tends to be the religion that the headteacher favors.

While opting out is possible it will generally feel like a punishment. The child is denied access to the other non-religious parts of the assembly and is marked out as different.

And I don't take DS to a place which states there is no God, which has people talking about there being no God and then expecting him to think there is no God. I don't expect his school to promote the absence of God and to sing hymns saying God does not exist.

Holly, great point there.

Children of atheists are normally taught that there is no God. If they do not get a chance to experience worship for themselves what real choice do they have?

Niminy, the first part is an unwarranted assumption anyway as others have pointed out.
In the second part you you are speaking of other people's children right? It's those you want to be made to worship god?

Would you be as happy if we made it 100% hinduism in all schools across the country? If it's just the exposure to worship then I guess you would be.

I teach my children what I believe to be true, as I think we all have a duty to do. But I can't tell them what to believe, and I certainly can't make them believe anything, seeing as how I can't get inside their heads and control their brains.

In any case, whether they choose to live their lives as Christians will have as much to do with what they imbibe from the surrounding culture (which will mostly tell them that Christians are sad, deluded, uncool anti-science weirdos) as anything I tell them. The thing that will have the most influence in the end is how I, and other Christians that they know, live our lives.

I totally agree with you op. I think it's wonderful and necessary to learn about all the main religions but I do not want my child to 'pray' to a deity in an act of 'worship'.

And that's great - but why should my child be forced to listen and to pray to your God? At school?

nimin My children are allowed to believe in god if they wish they choose not too they were exposed to religion a little in school they were allowed to hear about god and jesus and the stories from the bible and I taught them that other people believe in god that I do not, one of my non believing daughters has won the R E prize in school 4 years in a row, just because athiest do not believe does not mean they are intolerant and ignorant about christianity

nimin the Christians I know are not weirdos they just believe in god and jesus which they are entitled to do the Christian Children dds are friends with are not weird for having faith, faith imo is a good things it just depends on what you put your faith in

Re Hinduism: I would, as I've said, be happy for my kids to experience Hindu worship. I'd be happy for them to go to a Sunday Assembly come to that. By virtue of history this has been a Christian country, which is why there is the requirement to collective Christian worship. A situation where there was a requirement to collective Hindu worship would require that this was, historically, a Hindu country. Shall we confine ourselves to discussing the situation that actually obtains?

I still think people who are atheists tell their children there is no God, even if they don't sit down with them every evening and discuss his non-existence. I take my children to church because that's what we do as a family. Should I leave them at home alone instead? Do you think it is wrong, say, to take your children to a rally where they will be surrounded people telling them that the war should be stopped now? Or that the NHS should be saved now, or teachers should be paid more now? Can we, should we ever keep from passing on our views to our children on the basis that they should be kept away from them so that the may make up their own minds?

Do what you want with your children.

But leave worship out of schools. It's a massive difference.