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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that only people who worship Christ should have a church wedding or baptism

405 replies

HollyMiamiFLA · 12/02/2014 09:30

And that those people who are not Christians but have a church wedding are just doing it because they want to be the centre of attention in a lovely white dress, to walk down the aisle with music playing and that all that stuff the vicar says about God etc is irrelevant because they don't actually believe it but they're going with the flow and it's traditional.

AIBU to think it's a facade - vicars go along with it because it keeps the church going, couples go along with it because it's tradition and they can ignore the religious stuff and true Christians probably get a bit annoyed but accept it?

OP posts:
Thisvehicleisreversing · 12/02/2014 09:58

Ice that's the point.

If the church is your church which you worship in regularly then by all means get married there. But if you have no faith whatsoever why on earth would you consider getting married in a church?

Original poster
HollyMiamiFLA · 12/02/2014 09:58

What rules?

I just think that you should believe in God if you say religious vows in a wedding or at a baptism.

You don't need to be a church attendee. Just have to have faith.

Otherwise you are just using the venue for a nice building - often at the centre of a community - and are saying things you don't believe in just to get the wedding you want.

Still - I'm sure God doesn't give a shit if you lie just as long as you give the church some money.

OP posts:
IceBeing · 12/02/2014 09:58

Yes totally 100% against getting DD baptised...the topic has never even been discussed!

Original poster
HollyMiamiFLA · 12/02/2014 09:59

But God doesn't exist so you've got nothing to worry about Grin

OP posts:
IceBeing · 12/02/2014 10:00

holly god could only give a shit if god exists...which isn't the case. From an atheist perspective there is nothing wrong with promising things 'before god' (which we simply interpret as before everyone and the universe in general what ever might be out there).

TheMaw · 12/02/2014 10:00

HamletsSister exactly, well put.

If the church is willing to provide a service (and by service, I mean product) for a price, then what's the harm?

ThisVehicle I absolutely would get married in a mosque or synagog if there had been one available to hire for my wedding.

KidLorneRoll · 12/02/2014 10:01

The point being made about mosques doesn't hold.

The COE/COS etc is part of the fabric of the UK, especially so in smaller communities. People often have an emotional attachment to churches even if they don't believe in God. That same attachment doesn't exist to anything like the same degree in UK natives (for want of a better word) towards mosques. People traditionally get married in churches. Their parents got married in a church, they were christened in a church. Most can't say the same about a mosque.

IceBeing · 12/02/2014 10:01

This because everyone you know gets married there? because you have participated in a hundred weddings there and always imagined one day it would be your turn?

The believing in god part of being in a church community actually doesn't seem to be that big a deal tbh. There is so much more to it than that.

Original poster
HollyMiamiFLA · 12/02/2014 10:01

But would you have mentioned Allah?

OP posts:
treaclesoda · 12/02/2014 10:01

is it just the CofE that you have to pay a fee to get married in?

All the weddings I've ever been to, with only one exception, have been church weddings but I've never known anyone to have to pay to use the church. They've all been Christian churches, but Presbyterian/Baptist/Reformed etc not Anglican...FWIW as far as I'm aware most of those churches would require the couple to be part of the church in order to marry there, some of them even require both parties to be born again Christians and communicants, in order to marry there.

angeltulips · 12/02/2014 10:02

I think you're being quite precious, actually.

Like IceBeing, I am an atheist who was raised in a CofE school/community. My DH is CofE. Had he also been an atheist we would have probably got married outside a church, but it was important to him & I managed to reconcile my lack of belief in God - partially for reasons outlined by IceBeing, but also because I do feel positive about the moral teachings of the CofE. I just don't believe in the big guy himself. And if you read the actual vows (2nd order), you are fundamentally promising to love, honour etc. the other person - yes, you do so "in the name of God" but I interpreted that as "in a way that is consistent with Christian teachings" - which was a vow I am happy to make. I don't think you need to believe in divine presence to make Christian wedding vows.

Many CofE vicars are understanding of this position, and indeed many interpret the Bible through that lens. Whether this is doctrinally approved is kind of irrelevant.

IceBeing · 12/02/2014 10:02

I suspect many people who turn up to church every week don't actually believe as such...its routine, community, friendship etc.

Thisvehicleisreversing · 12/02/2014 10:03

TheMaw
Why wasn't there any available?

TheMaw · 12/02/2014 10:03

treacle mine was Church of Scotland.

IceBeing · 12/02/2014 10:04

angel exactly! The vows work...they match my moral code...and if god does exist then I am happy to promise to him too...but if he doesn't the rest of the universe will have to do!

kilmuir · 12/02/2014 10:04

Not sure why you would want to say wedding vows in front of god if you were a non believer. ? Means nothing surely

vladthedisorganised · 12/02/2014 10:04

A slight tangent, but I had a lot of respect for the very pretty church in a very, very posh area that had the following principle for weddings:

"We welcome everyone to have their wedding here, whether or not you are regular churchgoers or are part of this parish. We would ask you to respect that all ceremonies will be conducted in accordance with the Catholic faith. We don't ask for money for the service, and while we would never turn away anyone in genuine need, we would ask anyone who wishes to hold their wedding ceremony here to make a donation of 10% of their total wedding budget to the local homeless shelter."

Given what a lot of people spend on weddings, it seemed like a fantastic idea to me.

Original poster
HollyMiamiFLA · 12/02/2014 10:04

I think it's lovely to have walked down the aisle in a lovely white dress to the bells and the organ.

To have a vicar or an officiant talking about love, compassion etc.

I can see that and think it would be great if churches were hired out for that.
I would love that kind of service.

But I do think it's wrong to say vows about God if you don't believe them.

But what's the harm?

OP posts:
juule · 12/02/2014 10:04

"I can see that people want a wedding in a church because it's traditional and nice."

I think that's the point for some people. It's more a traditional/ cultural thing.

"I think it would be nice to have a wedding in a church without the religious stuff."

That would be a good idea for some people. It would just be formalising what happens anyway. Although some of the guests would probably still want the religious stuff. Maybe just leave it out of the vows.

SouthernComforts · 12/02/2014 10:04

I'm atheist so I wouldn't get married in a religious ceremony of any kind.

I was christened as a child becay my older family are all Christian.

DD is not christened, and won't be unless she chooses to be when she's old enough to understand, but I do let my mum take her to church occasionally.

BeverleyMoss · 12/02/2014 10:04

I'm all for sensible discussion but this thread has a really horrible tone about it, and the OP is making deliberately inflammatory and goady comments.

PsammeadPaintedTheLion · 12/02/2014 10:05

I am an atheist and so is my husband. We did not get married in a church, and our children are not baptised. Baptism to me seems utterly pointless comsidering my athiest views. A church wedding is nice, location wise, if only you could leave god out of it.

We got married in the woods by a lake, it was nice.

fay144 · 12/02/2014 10:05

Personally, I wouldn't have got married in a church, as I would have felt that my wedding vows were a lie. It was important to me that my vows had real meaning.

However, the church have every right to refuse to marry people, don't they? If it doesn't bother them (£££) then why should it bother anyone else?

TheMaw · 12/02/2014 10:05

ThisVehicle because we got married in my hometown, which is a tiny village on the west coast, only a church available.

IceBeing · 12/02/2014 10:06

but you don't vow anything to god in the wedding service....you vow to each other in sight of god (or not).

We don't even say the creed in a cofe service...there are no statements of belief at all...only 'in the name of' bits...and it can be in the name of anyone at all, or everyone.