to think that only people who worship Christ should have a church wedding or baptism

[HollyMiamiFLA]

And that those people who are not Christians but have a church wedding are just doing it because they want to be the centre of attention in a lovely white dress, to walk down the aisle with music playing and that all that stuff the vicar says about God etc is irrelevant because they don't actually believe it but they're going with the flow and it's traditional.

AIBU to think it's a facade - vicars go along with it because it keeps the church going, couples go along with it because it's tradition and they can ignore the religious stuff and true Christians probably get a bit annoyed but accept it?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

What goady comments?

Do you believe in God? Is that goady?

[IceBeing]

I just performed the missa solemnis and yelling credo repeatedly at the top of my voice is probably more blasphemous than my wedding vows...

[Thisvehicleisreversing]

Ice I understand why you married in a church.

I, like the op don't understand why people of zero faith, from families of zero faith would even consider using a church and lying during their vows. The only reason I can see is so the pictures look pretty.

It's insulting to Christians in the same way it would be an insult to Muslims to get wed in their mosque and lie to Allah.

[McRoo]

YANBU. Bugs me too. Feels so false and done for "effect" rather than any actual belief.

[Calloh]

I'm undecided on God.

I am decided on Love. I stood on a step that people had stood on for 800 years and said words that people had said for about 500 years and when I said those words they seemed bigger than my husband and I. They felt momentous as they should. The church contains some of my small history and the much vaster history of all who have lived in the valley. Regardless of belief I wanted my marriage to be a small part of that massive history.

Your OP is mean-spirited. Why let it bother you?

[LadyInDisguise]

Kid I agree about the fact that the church is embedded in the small community.
My Dh is from a small village. The record book of all marriages and christening is held in that tiny chapel. Before our wedding, 3 entries down was my DH baptism. Since then there has been my SIL baptisms for all her 3 dcs and ours. And that's it.
These are times for people on the (small as you have gathered!) community meet up again.

In the same way, for Christmas this year, they have decided not to do a service but to organize 'lunch' at the nearby village hall so that as many people in the community felt they would be welcome. We had about one prayer and one hymn, the rest was eating, chatting and doing a quiz. They all felt that it was better to carry the 'feelings' of Christmas by sharing this time together than by having a 'traditional' service.

[angeltulips]

goody comments i think are more along the lines of "if you don't believe in god then the only reason you could possibly want to get married in a church is to wear a pretty dress and get good photos"

why can't you accept that faith and the role of the church is more complex than that for many people, and that some people find church services meaningful despite a lack of belief in divine presence? you are extremely simplistic.

[angeltulips]

• goady not goody

[HollyMiamiFLA]

Why is it mean spirited?

If you think it's ok to pretend lie just to get a traditional wedding, then fine.

[angeltulips]

who's pretending? i don't think anyone on this thread has lied or pretended anything. it's only you who has this bizarre insistence that we are all out to hoodwink the vicars of britain for pretty-picture-gain

[HollyMiamiFLA]

If you say "in the name of God" or whatever in a vow and you don't believe, what's that all about?

[SwayingBranches]

Christians don't worship Christ

If you were a Christian you would understand why vicars choose to marry or baptise people who don't fulfill outside expectations of "Christian"

[TheMaw]

Holly I think your last comment is an example of you being mean spirited. You're coming across as very passive-aggressive now, which is a shame because it's an interesting topic.

[angeltulips]

i explained how i thought about my vows up above

i took them very seriously

did you read my post or are you just repeating the same thing over and over again for some strange reason?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

" N and N, you stand in the presence of God as man and wife to dedicate to him your life together, that he may consecrate your marriage and empower you to keep the covenant and promise you have solemnly declared.

[The Bible teaches us that marriage is a gift of God in creation and a means of his grace, a holy mystery in which man and woman become one flesh. It is God's purpose that, as husband and wife give themselves to each other in love throughout their lives, they shall be united in that love as Christ is united with his Church.

Marriage is given, that husband and wife may comfort and help each other, living faithfully together in need and in plenty, in sorrow and in joy. It is given, that with delight and tenderness they may know each other in love, and, through the joy of their bodily union, may strengthen the union of their hearts and lives. It is given as the foundation of family life in which children may be [born and] nurtured in accordance with God's will, to his praise and glory. This is the meaning of the marriage you have made.]

You now wish to affirm your desire to live as followers of Christ, and you have come to him, the fountain of grace, that, strengthened by the prayers of the Church, you may be enabled to fulfil your marriage vows in love and faithfulness.

Let us keep silence and remember God's presence with us now.

God is love, and those who live in love live in God
and God lives in them.

[Calloh]

You don't have to pretend. Everyone, regardless of their religion, has the right to get married in their parish church.

It is mean-spirited to try and seperate believers and non-believers and downplay the non-Christian's attachment to the building of the church to just ''wanting to be the centre of attention and wear a pretty dress'. And even if that's all it is why let it bother you? Personally I don't like all kind of wedding traditions but it's none of my damn business. A non-Christian getting married in a church doesn't take anything from the faithful.

[limitedperiodonly]

Does your rule apply to non-believers of other faiths who have religious ceremonies in synagogues, gurdwaras, mosques or wherever for purely cultural reasons, or just to people of nominally Christian faith, and mostly CofE ones at that?

[SomethingkindaOod]

YABU. The idea that Church is just for committed regular 'in with the crowd' Christians rather than the community as a whole is part of what drove me away from the CofE in the first place. I have no issue with a belief in God despite being Pagan, it's the attitude of 'you are not welcome here' that annoys me.
A vicar friend of mine used to attend our local church and his new parish is the antithesis of ours, welcoming, friendly and modern. He's young enough and open minded enough to have realised that society has moved on from the rather elitist thinking that seemed to be so prominent in the church at one time. The church needs to welcome all comers in order to have any modern relevance. If church goers have an issue with accepting the fact that people who walk into the building might not necessarily share their faith then they need to stop the vicar in charge accepting fees for ceremonies.
DH wants to have DD2 christened. I don't have a problem with that either, the christening isn't for me, it's for her. We're not having a CofE christening, just a small blessing style ceremony in a local non conformist church then a quiet meal afterwards. What she (or her siblings) does with the fact that she has been baptised into the church when she's old enough is up to her.

[TheMaw]

Calloh exactly, very well said.

[BeverleyMoss]

If you don't believe in God yourself then why is it bothering you whether other people are saying 'God stuff' in a church and for reasons known only to them, you have no understanding of what they believe or how they choose to hold their beliefs.

[IceBeing]

hmmm right well it is now obvious there is no point continuing to respond. As angel says we are trying to explain but all we are getting back is 'it mentions GOD so you must have lied'

whatever...

[expatinscotland]

It seems to be only Christianity that allows people to do this. I do find it hypocritical, tbh.

[AnAdventureInCakeAndWine]

AFAIK the only God-related thing anyone has to say to get married in a CofE church is "In the presence of God I make this vow." and that's not full-on lying. It would be perfectly possible to take the view that it means "In the presence of any god or gods there may happen to be I make this vow".

[HollyMiamiFLA]

I have no problem with people using the church. I know it's the centre of a community and is welcoming to all.

But if the vicar says that blessing and you don't believe it, isn't that wrong?

[KidLorneRoll]

Additionally, I would have thought that, especially in an age of dwindling church membership, most people would be happy to welcome non-believers into a church. It's a chance to welcome people into the fold, is it not?

I've always thought the churches role should extend beyond singing a few songs on a sunday morning. I would like to think that a church run by and attended by decent people would welcome and help anybody, regardless of faith. I'm pretty sure Jesus said something along those lines too.