to think that only people who worship Christ should have a church wedding or baptism

[HollyMiamiFLA]

And that those people who are not Christians but have a church wedding are just doing it because they want to be the centre of attention in a lovely white dress, to walk down the aisle with music playing and that all that stuff the vicar says about God etc is irrelevant because they don't actually believe it but they're going with the flow and it's traditional.

AIBU to think it's a facade - vicars go along with it because it keeps the church going, couples go along with it because it's tradition and they can ignore the religious stuff and true Christians probably get a bit annoyed but accept it?

[angeltulips]

holly none of that appeared in our vows - is that a catholic service?

[AnAdventureInCakeAndWine]

The long chunk you quoted above is all said by the vicar. Yes, if the vicar doesn't believe in God then that's probably a bad thing, all things considered. Perhaps you should start a separate thread about that?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

Church of England Wedding Service

www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/pastoral/marriage/civilmarriage.aspx

[IceBeing]

holly NO it isn't wrong. The vicar believes it and can say what s/he likes. What I believe is my business. I didn't find that having a blessing said over my hurts me in any way as I don't believe...so how could it?

[IceBeing]

There isn't one set text....we didn't get any of that stuff either...

my brother chose the old fashioned stuff because he likes it better but we didn't.

[Topaz25]

Personally I am Catholic and didn't have a wedding in a church and won't have future children christened because DH isn't religious so we couldn't commit to raise them in the Church. I do take the vows seriously so I don't agree with people having a church wedding for the pretty pictures or because it's the done thing or having a christening to get their kid into a good school. If they believe on some level that's different.

[SwayingBranches]

My old vicar said you would be surprised at how many people have faith and belief in God even if they never come to church or know a damn thing about specifically Christian worship.

Vicars are not the gatekeepers of God.

[Ragwort]

I also don't understand why non Christians want to get married in church, I wouldn't 'ban' it, because the Church should be welcoming to all but I still don't understand why so many people insist in a big expensive Church wedding and then never set foot in Church again.

I am religious and have a strong faith but I chose not to get married in Church - DH1 wasn't all religious so it would have felt 'wrong' for him to make a promise in a Church (he was never interested in attending Church with me). I had no interest in a big, flashy, white wedding. I was much happier with a quiet registry office service. That marriage didn't last long anyway and I wasn't going to have my second wedding in a Church even though DH2 was/is a Christian and a Church attender - luckily we are still married 25 years later. .

[HollyMiamiFLA]

From the FAQs
"My partner believes in God but I'm not sure. Would I be hypocritical to marry in church?"

You are welcome to have a Church of England wedding, regardless of your beliefs. A sample of a typical wedding service can be viewed here. Take a look at it together and with your Vicar who understands that spiritual beliefs are complex and varied. This need not be a barrier to a church wedding.

[SwayingBranches]

Roman Catholicism is, of course, different to the Church of England.

It would be fairer to use the plural Christianities as there is actually just one, or two.

[SwayingBranches]

Church weddings are not necessarily expensive nor big.

[angeltulips]

nope it didn't appear in ours - CofE and the vicar said the following:


^In the presence of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
we have come together
to witness the marriage of N and N,
to pray for God's blessing on them,
to share their joy
and to celebrate their love.

Marriage is a gift of God in creation
through which husband and wife may know the grace of God.
It is given
that as man and woman grow together in love and trust,
they shall be united with one another in heart, body and mind,
as Christ is united with his bride, the Church.

The gift of marriage brings husband and wife together
in the delight and tenderness of sexual union
and joyful commitment to the end of their lives.
It is given as the foundation of family life
in which children are [born and] nurtured
and in which each member of the family,in good times and in bad,
may find strength, companionship and comfort,
and grow to maturity in love.

Marriage is a way of life made holy by God,
and blessed by the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ
with those celebrating a wedding at Cana in Galilee.
Marriage is a sign of unity and loyalty
which all should uphold and honour.
It enriches society and strengthens community.
No one should enter into it lightly or selfishly
but reverently and responsibly in the sight of almighty God.

N and N are now to enter this way of life.
They will each give their consent to the other
and make solemn vows,
and in token of this they will [each] give and receive a ring.
We pray with them that the Holy Spirit will guide
and strengthen them,
that they may fulfil God's purposes
for the whole of their earthly life together^

(as others have pointed out, it's the vicar that says that, not me - so what's the relevance?)

[AnAdventureInCakeAndWine]

At a civil marriage ceremony the registrar says that marriage is for life, but most couples getting married these days believe in the concept of divorce (even if they have no intention of divorcing, very few people these days believe that marriage is always and irrevocably for life -- and those who do are likely to be off getting married in religious ceremonies rather than at the register office).

If the registrar says that at your marriage ceremony and you don't believe it, is that wrong?

[GooseyLoosey]

I am an atheist and I married in a church.

The reason that I did this is that as far as I could see, all our cultural traditions around marriage had been subsumed by the church and involved the church. I value traditions and continuity and wanted the vows, white dress and solemnity of a church. It was more than a formality at a registry office for me.

We got married in a private chapel so there was no religious homily and the content of the service was agreed between us and the priest.

The service had no religious connotations for me and I never pretended to be more religious than I am. I think the priest approved of vows being made in a church.

All parties were happy.

[HollyMiamiFLA]

Because you don't believe what the vicar is saying?

[dreamingofthesun]

I don't like the idea of judging someone else and their level of faith. Just because someone doesn't go near a church doesn't mean that they don't believe in God.

[SwayingBranches]

isn't actually not is actually!

[HollyMiamiFLA]

Maybe the registrar should be honest. Marriage should be life but chances are it won't be.

[angeltulips]

i believe in what the vicar is saying insofar as it applies to me, holly, yes.

[HollyMiamiFLA]

" Just because someone doesn't go near a church doesn't mean that they don't believe in God."

I've never said that. I said that you should believe in God if you have a religious service.

[HollyMiamiFLA]

Then that's fine angeltulips

[Thetallesttower]

Many people, obviously you are not one, are uncertain about their beliefs, or one person in the couple is more devout. Even the most faithful Christian might have times of profound doubt or feel cut off from God, and even those who are unsure can feel very close to the divine in some way, even if they are unsure to label it.

Religous belief is complex, traditions are complex, you don't need to quiz people on entry to get married to ensure they have the 'correct' beliefs and nor is that in the spirit of Christianity or Christians who tend to be pretty welcoming of anyone.

[AnAdventureInCakeAndWine]

So by your argument atheists can't get married anywhere: they can't get married in church because the vicar will say something they don't believe in, and they can't get married in a civil ceremony because (under present law) the registrar will say something they don't believe in?

[Sirzy]

I struggle to understand why anyone would want to have an important service in a religion they don't believe. Doesn't make any sense at all to me.

That said, as the daughter of the treasurer of a small but beautiful church then financially for the church it is great that people are happy to pay for beautiful pictures irrepective of their beliefs

Seriously though, each to their own and as long as people don't lie about their faith then I don't see an issue.

[HollyMiamiFLA]

But if the vicar said we are gathered here in the presence of God, it would probably make a scene if I were to say "no we're not, God doesn't exist"