To ask should smacking children be banned.

[HadABadDay2014]

Just seen this on the welsh news.

I am not perfect and once I have smacked ds felt awful and never did it again.

Now I know if this was a patient at work or a member of the public I would had been arrested and highly likely ended up with a criminal record and lost my job.

So the question is should snaking children be banned.

MrsTerry - I don't agree with constantly having 3 year olds in reins just in case (would you use reins on a member of the public?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

I don't think it should be.

I had no problem with the occasional smack before I had children, now I have them I am more anti it and find it a more murky issue.

But parents aren't perfect, otherwise good parents can smack children and certainly shouldn't be arrested for it. The other day my daughter (4) and I were on a dog walk, everyone was happy but at some stage she got cross with me for not carrying her. She sat down and refused to move. I tried everything and it was getting closer and closer to me being late to pick up DS from school. I was so angry with her and called her selfish and virtually dragged her out of the field. I didn't smack her but I feel so guilty about calling her selfish that part of me wished I had just given her a small smack instead if engaging in a verbal argument and getting angry. I think that I may have damaged her confidence more by saying something mean to her.

Yes I should have foreseen what might happen on the walk and build in time for it, I should have somehow nipped it in the bud, I should have not got so angry. But these kind of things do happen and I feel so guilty.

On the other hand how can I teach her to not tolerate domestic abuse if I spank her if she doesn't do what I want?

Smacking is hitting. Hitting is a broad term that just refers to striking something / someone. It could include everything from a light tap to punching. When most people use the term smacking I understand that to mean it's not punching / beating, & is probably a fairly mild slap applied to a child, but it's still a type of hitting. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

I think a ban would send out the right message - namely that any kind of hitting is unacceptable. Teachers, childminders, & many others who spend their professional lives working with children manage to keep children safe & enforce discipline without doing it. I think parents can as well - I do & so do most other mums & dads I know.

Having said that, I can't imagine (& wouldn't want to see) caring parents being prosecuted for administering a light tap. But if a change in the law could deter those parents who smack repeatedly & are, frankly, too lazy or lacking in self-control to develop more effective, non-violent methods of discipline, then that can only be a good thing.

I think that children should be protected against abuse. There is already strong legislation that does that. If someone thinks that you are abusing your child, by hitting them, shouting at them, not feeding them enough, saying nasty undermining things to them, etc etc, they can make an immediate anonymous phone call to SS who will investigate, with legal back-up (eg they have the right to go into the child's home). Your child can be removed and you can be prosecuted. You can also be prosecuted if you smack your child which leaves a mark (eg a red patch or bruise), and would probably be prosecuted for child abuse as well. I think that bad parenting is pretty much covered by the current law. It isn't always picked up by the authorities, which is a separate issue. If you legislate against one-off type smacking that doesn't leave a mark, many perfectly good parents will get caught up in completely unnecessary prosecutions. I also think that parents should have some leeway in how they bring up their children - it shouldn't be the law that every child must be brought up in exactly the same way, with severe punishment doled out to any parent who doesn't toe the line.

No

If you smack the child to punish them and it didn't hurt, would you keep hitting harder to you be a reaction.

The whole 'allowed but only if you don't leave a mark' thing sits very uncomfortably with me.

If myself and a friend got mugged by two people, both got hit but my friends attacker didn't leave a mark should they get a lesser punishment because their intent to harm was less?

To me the argument is the same, and to think parents are measured enough in the heat of the moment to gauge how hard to hit to be legal is crazy.

People only hit in temper-when they've lost control. i don't believe anyone who tells me they genuinely take 5 mins to assess a situation and then deliver their considered punishment of a smack, to teach the child a lesson.

Yes it should, it wasn't that long ago it was ok for teachers to smack. Children have historically been treated appallingly by society in general.
It's about time they were protected by law and it clearly doesn't go far enough as it stands seeing as smacking is still a very common form of discipline.

Yes.
My mother was a headteacher. She smacked me. I can think of very few days when she didn't smack me. Some days it seemed almost endless. I must have been the only kid around who dreaded the school holidays. She never left a mark, not even the smacking round the face left a mark. It's abuse.

I'm sorry that happened to you Dawn

Big people shouldn't hit little people. Yes it should be banned.

Yes it should be. It is illegal to physically assault an adult but not a child- it is completely illogical!

There is huge support for the banning of smoking in cars when children are present because of concerns for children's health and yet 'assault' and it's potential harm to a child is not a concern. The whole issue is minimised and bizzarely detached from 'real' domestic violence. That distinction is not made when talking about physical harm by adults to other adults! Why are children not afforded that protection? Equally, children are criminally responsible for their actions at 10 but are not protected by the Criminal Justice System if they are on the receiving end of a 'smack'??

yes I would. I wasn't smacked as a child, I was over-the-knee spanked - with the hand or a hairbrush or a ruler. It was hateful, and I will never ever forget it.

I was once in a local museum and their was a chap with his DD (aged maybe 6) - she was throwing a major strop about something or another, as children do. He dragged her into the loos and the noise of the crack as he hit her, and her scream afterwards I shall never forget. It set poor DD off, I don't think had ever heard such a noise. Yet I daresay he was 'just giving her a smack' as she was being badly behaved.

I agree with dromedary. I think we should educate about the alternatives, make parenting classes available with no sense of a stigma, and let it die a natural death.
Can you imagine the unintentional outcome of criminalising a tired/ stressed/ end of tether smack? Parents not sending their kids to school in case they get told on, parents scared if children threatening to ring child line, worried parents telling kids not to tell in case they get taken away.

It's funny how none of these excuses stand up when it's adults. DV victims have heard 'it's just a slap', 'I lost my temper', 'I was stressed' but no one is telling them they should put up with it. And, they can leave. Not easily or without a big risk but they can. A child can't.

BTW I have worked with offenders a lot and I don't think most offences deserve a huge, disproportionate reaction the first time. This could join shoplifting and vandalism as antisocial behaviour that gets a caution the first time.

"If smacking is the only effective parenting technique, how come cultures where smacking is illegal do so well? Denmark, Finland, Iceland, New Zealand?"

I live in Norway where it is illegal. The children are ill-disciplined in school and out of it. Bullying is commonplace. I agree that it is perfectly possible to raise decent good children without smacking, but other methods of discipline are harder to implement and take a great deal more effort. I have to wonder whether just removing a means of discipline that some parents use, without ensuring that all of them are fully aware that there are alternatives is not necessarily as good an idea as it may appear.

I also suspect that those who use smacking responsibly (i.e. physical punishment in a controlled, non-angry manner, not lashing out) are not actually the ones who are likely to genuinely abuse children. And those who do abuse children probably won't remotely care that it is against the law.

I agree with some of what Dromedary says. No hitting a child isn't like hitting an adult. Small children are different. I agree with both sentiments. It's much, much worse to hit a child. My job as a parent is to raise a child by example. I will never, ever show her that there is any place for raising a hand to another person. I certainly won't let her see that just because I am bigger and older than her, I am allowed to hit her.

The most challenging people I know are my aunt and my niece. One brain damaged, one severely autistic. Neither responds to logic or reason. Both can behave very dangerously. In that way, they are no different to a tiny child. Would it be okay for my aunt's carers to smack her? For my brother to hit my niece? No. I expect those people to use all the powers and abilities given to them to find a better way.

And there's always the running in the road/plug socket thing. No I wouldn't smack my child for doing either before it's thrown out there as a question. Because it makes bog all sense to hurt a child because either I've made a mistake in letting them loose in a dangerous situation or they've failed to learn a valuable lesson previously. I would modify my behaviour or teach them how to modify theirs. Hitting doesn't come into it.

And I'll also add before it comes up, yes other forms of punishment are also bad sometimes. Screaming and swearing at a child is awful. Not disciplining at all is awful too. There's a world of options between the two. I may not smack but this doesn't mean I either don't bother with behavior management or I use some other form of abuse.

Yes it should be made illegal. It makes me feel sick if I see someone smacking a child in the street. If they are happy to smack DCs in public, what do they do to them at home? No-one has the right to hit another human, whether you gave birth to them or not.

Have read all replies so I know I am in the minority.
But here goes.
I have on occasion smacked my children because they were not able to understand with words that what they were doing was unacceptable.
For example one child would bite a sibling, or other child at play group, repeatedly, no amount of speaking made any difference. The day she was smacked she would have been about 2, she bit her sisters face so hard it broke the skin, the sight and sound of screaming was just awful. It could not go on, I could not ignore the fact that she was hurting others and did not understand verbally that what she was doing was wrong.
I'm not proud if it, but it happened and she was smacked. The biting stopped very quickly. She learnt if I do this (biting) then thus will happen (her backside hurt).
If a child is mature enough to understand your words then smacking is a lazy method of parenting.
As I said I know I'm in a small minority. As a loving parent I know tried other means, it didn't work, smacking was the absolute last resort.
I do not think it should be illegal because I'm against a nanny state and believe decent loving parents doing their best to teach children right from wrong know the difference instrinsically between abuse and a smack.

No, your child learnt if she hurt someone, someone else would physically hurt her too. She didn't learn it was wrong, just that her mum would hurt her if she did it. She didn't learn it was unacceptable. She just learned that bad things happened if she did it. There's a difference.

If it's not ok to smack an adult then it shouldn't be ok to smack a child.

It's lazy parenting to suggest that child need to be smacked because they don't understand other methods of discipline.

I've only been here 4/5 months - is this question cyclical?

Of course it should be banned. Those of you who age don't need me to tell you why and those of you who don't won't be convinced by anything I have to say.

Iwannalay, the thing is smacking doesn't work. You say that your dd learnt that if she bites, it hurts and therefore it works. What we know is that the only way in which smacking works is in terms of avoidance. A child will comply in order to avoid being hurt. They don't learn that what they did was wrong, only how to avoid the pain. Sometimes by hiding the undesirable behaviour better or not getting caught. You also have the problem that once you've smacked, then what? You catch them biting again, what do you do? Smack harder?

I have a 2yo and believe me, he has been a biter. It was his chosen method of attack. At 2yo he was plenty old enough to understand his actions and wasn't actually offered the opportunity to repeatedly bite another child at a playgroup. It was up to me to stop the initial behaviour by removal and to teach him why he shouldn't bite. I endeavoured to show him why he was wrong, to help him to learn to make better choices. I could have smacked him and hoped the pain of it shocked him into not doing it again. But he would have learnt nothing. No empathy, no other ways of handling his frustrations and no life skills. He would have learnt to fear me physically hurting him.

Sorry to single out your post, I'm not attacking you, just using your post to think out loud really. I find the idea of teaching a child not to hurt others by, well, hurting them really very bizarre indeed.

No. it shouldn't be banned.

I have smacked my kids when they've been really naughty and dangerous.

I think a few people here are lying about not having smacked their kids.

Jesus, I don't agree with harming kids but when really necessary, I think it can be effective.