to beg women with lazy sexist arsehole DHs not to have more DCs with them

[BeeInYourBonnet]

Apologies as I'm sure this must have been done before, but some of the threads recently have been SO depressing. I've been on MN 8 years, and it never ceases to amaze me what total fucking arseholes some women are married to. These manchilds are pathetic.

I want to cry when I read that some poor woman is pg with no 3, 4 or 5, and admits that her DH has never helped with a single night wake-up, has hardly changed a nappy, provides no support emotionally or practically, is financially abusive, the list goes on....

I know its more complicated than this, but I just want to scream 'stop having DCs with these complete bastards' 'stop showing them that's its OK to check out of family life'

If a woman has beeb abused since birth pretty much then she won't necessarily know how much of a twat her Dh is. Abuse gets normalised or she may feel she deserves it in some way. I did not realise just how abusive my parents were until I left.
I can still remember locking the door of my little room in halls and realising that I wasn't scared, I felt so free. For the first time in my whole life I felt safe. I didn't know I lived in a permanent state of fear until that moment when I was no longer afraid.
I visited a couple of times and as soon as I set foot in there home I would actually tremble. I don't see them anymore now.
It's easy to become used to a situation when you're in it. It's not fair to judge the women.

I also wish there wasn't such a prejudice against only having one child.

I'm an only child. Until I joined MN I had no idea people thought it was weird or sad or that you would grow up selfish and lonely and odd.

I now have an only child myself, like Morris it's been hard enough that there is no question of having another (no money anyway!)

I wonder how many women feel that pressure to have another child and with a short age gap rather than really really wanting another one.

Exactly Hop- night feeds and housework are the sort of things that will work themselves out naturally, in the space of a loving, respectful partnership.

DH and I have never argued about housework, ever. I breastfeed, so night feeds will be my job anyway, and I'm fine with that, because DH will pick up the slack in something else at another point throughout the day. We discuss things and we help each other out.

Things you could include in a class for teenagers dealing with healthy relationships, which wouldn't impinge on anyone's personal choices.Off the top of my head

-Financial abuse- what constitutes financial abuse, a case study (they could use my cousin, whose maternity allowance is paid into her husband's account, who doesn't have a bank account of her own, or a joint account, and whose husband once bawled at her for spending a fiver on a candle without phoning him in advance)

• ditto sexual abuse WITHIN relationships- for instance nobody EVER told me that once I had consented to sex once, even in the context of a long term relationship, I didn't have to consent EVERY time. The simplicity of this still astounds me. I just didn't know.

• that being with a boyfriend/girlfriend doesn't mean you have to ditch family and friends at the behest of that partner- a good partner will not try and sabotage your (previously happy) relationship with others.

• that a partner should not try to control what you wear, how you wear it etc, especially not by calling you a slag

Yep dreaming I get some really stupid comments at baby groups etc, because they're all on their second baby and I'm OK with just one would have to sell my kidneys to afford childcare for two.

I think it is a lie that "women" go for "alpha bad boys". I don't see any evidence for this in my life. I honestly don't!
Also being alpha, to most, would mean you weren't living life as a bad boy. Surely a bad boy is a bit of a loser? Alpha would be a success, good work life balance, healthy, popular, nice group of normal friends, no?

It's not about specifics MrsKoala

As LoonVan said, it's about promoting discussion/debate and teenagers are very good at that.

Just as Mumsnet has made 1000s of people see the other side of the coin, bringing this subject to the classroom could do the same thing.

The difference is, by the time people find Mumsnet it's often too late because they're already in a bad relationship even if they don't realise it at first.

There were several bright girls in my sister's year and the year above who married utter bankers who lived in the town's many pubs. They didn't change when they were married - the sensible ones git out before having children and the foolish ones didn't.

They all at least had the sense to get divorced!

But honestly why the fuck do women marry blokes with fewer brain cells than them, before they are passed.

We really need to teach young women to have some self-respect and confidence!

wankers

MrsKoala I would suggest that some women who are determined not to endure the same abuse as their mothers actually do still end up in dysfunctional relationships -- but of a different kind and so they don't realise the extent to which they are repeating the same dynamics.

For example, they may think they're different because they're not being physically abused, but the emotional abuse and disrespect is still there.

I think all types of peopl can exhibit abusive behaviours and what we're talking about it teaching people that they don't have to stand for any of it, actually. That confidence will either enable them to recognise early on that this isn't an equal partnership and get out, or the abuser will clock that their behaviour (which is probably learnt) isn't on and they'll either stop it or leave for an easier target.

YYY^^ all of it.
Especially 'you're so lucky' bollocks. I didn't win him in a raffle.

pissed not passed (sorry fucking, pissing, wanker of a Kindle!)

Yes Loon i have worked in Secondary schools, colleges and universities. I also used to (now a SAHM) do widening participation into deprived areas where young people are unlikely to continue education and have depressingly low aspirations. Some of my talks where they are left to come to their own conclusions on gender, respect and blame, have left me crying with frustration and despair. However, i cannot tell them how to think or what is imo right and wrong. Also if their parents felt my assertions were having any kind of disparaging message on their home dynamics or cultural differences they would be removed from the programmes.

Unfortunately, just letting them know where to go if they need help seems to most we could do.

Shitonastick, that was a revalation for my DD when she went to uni, but from the opposite side. She was puzzled as to why so many friends were not planning on going home again, or accepted unacceptable behaviour and fell into a specific role.
Then she listened and realised that her upbringing, and the adult men that she knew, and her male friends when growing up were not the only types around. That other women had been raised with very different expectations of how their lives and relationships should be.

at bankers/wankers

Freudian slip?

Yanbu.

I like the idea of a MN campaign to highlight what's normal, red flags etc.
You see many threads on here where OH has done x,v,z unforgivable thing but 'he's a really good dad'. So I think something about what makes a good parent might help? A few threads i've seen have said things like 'i thought we had a good relationship etc but reading a thread on MN....'

Also if their parents felt my assertions were having any kind of disparaging message on their home dynamics or cultural differences they would be removed from the programmes.

That's all the more reason to work this into the national curriculum and make the lesson normalised.

How about 'good parents don't treat their child's other parent like shit'.

I hate the 'he's a really good dad' line.

No. He Fucking. Isn't.

Yanbu! So many of my friends are married or with lazy arseholes
And have several Dcs with them!

I would rather be single.

Yes i do agree Dreaming, the amount of women who have said to me 'well he doesn't hit me' makes me want to set my head on fire. It is depressing. And Dreaming one of the reasons i want more than one child is because both dh and i are only children and we both did grow up lonely and sad and with abusive fathers (altho both very opposite ways of abuse).

yes and such a lot of the time the 'really good dads' aren't seen for dust once the couple break up, or if they are, they fuck around with contact time and basically do everything to cause their ex trouble, regardless of how it affects the children.

Well Boba, let's see how many MNetters are convinced by the campaign.
Could launch it on the relationships board and see how that goes.

And that's another thing that's under rated bebbeau...teaching independence.

So many parents go from one relationship to another without catching their breath, or ever knowing what it's like to live alone.

I'm sure finding your own happiness and independence helps us choose better partners...instead of just clinging to the first one who comes along.

By the time they turn out to be a wrong 'un, their feet are normally under the table.

I'm sorry to hear that, Mrs

I didn't have a great upbringing myself. I don't think it would have been any better with a sibling though.

To be clear, it's perfectly ok to want more than one, I just think it's unfortunate that people think only children are a bad thing, because for some women this must mean added pressure.

That's all the more reason to work this into the national curriculum and make the lesson normalised.

You can't tell people what to think tho, you can only give them the facts and let them come to their own conclusions. If you have a room full of young people coming to the conclusion that a woman owes a man sex, should be forced if she says no etc. All you can do is tell them the law. Some of these opinions are so ingrained there is no way a few PSE workshops would make any difference. In fact in the places i worked you just come across as a weirdo do gooder who knows nothing. Not saying i disagree with the concept of instilling these other ideas per se (as long as done in a very broad way), i am just not convinced at how effective it would be.

The other thing is in the communities i worked in the parents may remove the children altogether from the education system.