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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to pay the live in nanny/au pair this salary.

372 replies

SpagBolgs · 07/02/2014 17:56

£300 a week for 7:30AM-5PM 5 times a week sometimes it may be a bit more. Then give her some money so she can treat herself. She will stay in our house and she get the chance to go to college/university. We will provide her with food, water a shower and internet. She will be treated like a member of the family and will be able to access the family car.

OP posts:
1974rach · 08/02/2014 16:27

I have read your thread.

I have posted previously.

1974rach · 08/02/2014 16:30

My comments are based on your remarks. If I had not read your posts I would not have bothered commenting.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 08/02/2014 16:47

I think £30k gross upwards is the standard for an experienced nanny.

I wonder if it seems high to some due to a variety of cultural expectations and anomalies:

  • that's what a graduate professional (not banking!) would get in their first few years (and lower in their initial year), and we do have drummed into us that a degree is a instant step up in terms of earning power. But on the other hand, professional jobs have a defined career path with room for promotion and earning power to go up, plus benefits like full sick pay and pensions
  • in alot of jobs people get a flat salary and are expected to work the hours it takes with no over time so alot of those 'higher status' jobs work out as pretty rubbish per hour. Then as weekly hours worked rise as they are globally, the childcare has to be longer too, yet work on a system of hourly rates.
  • people go back to work/ are forced back to work for many reasons (cultiral expectations, long term money and independence, risks of coming out of the working world too long etc), and it's a cultural belief that most people can afford childcare especially if you're lucky enough to have two wages coming in ... And yet the truth is most people really struggle in the early years.
  • and then if you've lived abroad in many of the middle east or south east Asia, where labour is cheap and the individual unprotected by law, then Europe must come as a shock - ethically a great step forwards with that means financially a totally different ball game. It's easy to be a generous employer when others are treating theirs like slaves.
Bornin1984 · 08/02/2014 16:59

Glad you have compromised op:-)Thanks

MiscellaneousAssortment · 08/02/2014 17:05

Is 20,400 net or gross?

Historically the nanny professional got stuck on giving net wages mostly because there were alot of tax dodges going on.

Now, and in line with every other professional, it's expected to give gross wages as you don't know what tax code is or other sources of income, so you can't give an accurate net income.

Some nannys still ask for net, but in my experience there is a correlation to those nannys bring very inexperienced or used to cash in hand work.

Pigeonhouse · 08/02/2014 18:02

It's not so much the sums involved in this case for me - I don't know what market rates are for live-in nannies - it's the fact that the OP seemed to have already employed the nanny, but there was no pre-agreed salary, or annual review, just the repeated mention that the nanny was going to have to 'do well' to get a one-off 'treat' of £75. There didn't seem to be a contract, and the OP appeared to believe that allowing the nanny her own room, free water (?) and the chance to eat with the family were generous benefits. This all sounded exploitative.

I assume that those posters who say the poster is now offering a normal salary would still insist on knowing said salary before starting a job, rather than working for someone without knowing what you were going to be paid!

BrandyAlexander · 08/02/2014 18:13

Op, if your new salary offer is gross that doesn't seem market rate. There is a simple logic when it comes to having a nanny:

Demanding job needs happy nanny + happy parents + happy dcs needs well paid and treated nanny.

Read the other way......well treated + paid nanny = happy nanny+ happy dcs + happy parents.

Does £20k= well treated and well paid nanny?

foreverondiet · 08/02/2014 18:18

I think it's ok to start with - because say £8 an hour x 50 = £400 but food and accommodation worth at least £100. Minimum wage doesn't apply to someone living in your home eating meals with your family - I have checked the rules recently, it says e.g. An au pair, it doesn't say only an au pair, so I would guess it also applies to live in nannies.

Btw honest not sure why everyone is being so critical - look on au pair world loads of people asking au pairs to work 50 hours and only pay £85 a week. However with the hours you set out not sure when they are going to college...

CerealMom · 08/02/2014 18:37

I'm also concerned that the OP seams to have already employed the nanny/au pair/housekeeper.

What about the contract?
*Salary

  • Agreed working hours? Opt out of working hours directive? I had to sign and opt out in my old job.
  • Holiday allowance.
  • Job spec - what is required for the role.

Employer requirements
*PAYE/NI

  • Maternity
  • Sickness - you may be covered by SSP
  • Paid holiday
  • Pension provision (not sure if you'd be covered by nest - yet, and employee can opt out)

It is beneficial for you as an employer and the employee to have a contract. Some of the above you are required by law to do, some are optional. A contract covers your arse and protects your employee - win win.

I really wouldn't go down the route of a basic (pittance) salary, some 'bonuses' as and when you feel like it. Firstly it's not the way to reward good staff and second HMRC gets p1ssed when they think you're trying to diddle then out of their money.

Finally, what if you have a major disagreement and sack her? She goes to tribunal. It doesn't look good for you.

This is why most people go through an agency. You pay more, but they sort out all of this (and more).

LynetteScavo · 09/02/2014 14:30

I think some posters are confused as to weather this is a live in/out position, and were a little offended at the OP's attitude.

I think for a live in position in London £18 - 23K pa is normal. I think most live in nannies would expect to work more than 9-5pm each day.

This particular family have older children, who will also need caring for during holidays, and presumably after school, which needs to be considered in the pay.

antimatter · 09/02/2014 15:03

If anyone's interested here's calculator - www.mranchovy.com/calc/
OP's nanny will earn netto 320/week for 9-5 job (8ph).

I think that is fewer hours than you planned for the same salary you've planned to pay her when opening this thread.

Brace yourself for nanny quitting within 6 months anyway.

Shonajoy · 09/02/2014 18:15

FIVE children? A childminder would want £800 a week round here at least. A full time cleaner would get £400 at least! Horrified and then the girl gets no peace, because you're happy to leave for a week straight away, and I bet you will be expecting her to do more and more as a house with five kids isn't exactly going to be peaceful.

Just because someone takes a job doesn't make it morally right, I think that's utterly reprehensible and totally unbelievable to think she can also attend uni- HOW?! People accept low paid jobs out of desperation- people like you pay low wages because people are desperate, I think you're bang out of order.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 09/02/2014 18:28

My nanny contract never stated I would be the mother's friend Sad.

OP - your job is a nanny job, not an au pair and thinking back to what I was getting paid in 2000 when I nannied is no where near enough.

Chippednailvarnish · 09/02/2014 18:46

I don't think the OP has any intention of paying anything near £20k for 40 hours. She's just trying to make herself look less crap. After all her opening gambit was £300 for nearly 50 hours and the all important free water.

Bornin1984 · 09/02/2014 19:00

Don't forget it started at 200 but nanny was to prove herself

DelGirl · 09/02/2014 19:04

All these posters saying she's not
Paying enough, you have 300 per week to spend on whatever you like then?

Why dont you gross it up to a live out wage then take off rent, bills and food, transport then see what you're left with. Hardly slave Labour fgs

Artandco · 09/02/2014 19:28

Del - most love in nannies will eat out at weekends so they aren't around house so much and give family space, they pay insurance, first aid, renew qualifications all each year which can cost considerable amouts.They might pay more in travel expenses as their work house might not be as close to public transport as used to ad they can't change this. It's not all to spend on clothes and holidays

DelGirl · 09/02/2014 19:46

I realise that Ant but it's still a lot even after insurance etc and surely their choice to eat out. That's a lot of expendable income for the average person.

ConfusedPixie · 09/02/2014 20:12

Del Why does that matter? Do we not deserve a real wage because we happen to live in? Hmm TBH, I'd almost see it as a premium for putting up with living in! I will never do it again.

LynetteScavo · 09/02/2014 21:29

I actually think the pay is OK for working 9-5.

Having read the OP's post of Fri 07-Feb-14 22:53:21, I am Hmm

OP, as you say you and your DH have a demanding jobs, I honestly don see how a nanny will be only working these hours.

And may I suggest you get a cleaner. Even if your LO's get tired and need a nap, the nanny will need some time to do child related tasks, so she won't be getting a 2-3 hour break.

DelGirl · 09/02/2014 21:47

Of course everyone deserves a living wage but depending on where the op lives, to live out would cost probably a bare minimum of another 700 a month. If she's in london, you'd need 500 for just a room never mind anything else. And dont forget thats after tax so a pure guestimate as a minimum an extra 10k added to her wage. I was a live in nanny too but we're talking 30 years ago and id never have dreamt of that much expendable income. Anyway I realise there are far better jobs out there with better pay but the nanny should take some responsibility here too. She accepted it, i assume.

PeriodFeatures · 09/02/2014 21:57

Bloody hell OP. I think it's fine. Where I'm from £300 per week, live in including food is a blimming good situation for someone. She will certainly be able to save a significant amount of money I'm sure. I have paid a mortgage, bills, fed and clothed myself, and managed to scrape holidays together on much less.

BrandyAlexander · 09/02/2014 22:17

I agree with LynetteScarvo. I read OPs later post couldn't see how the new hours of 9 to 5 are congruent with both her and dh having demanding jobs.

foreverondiet · 09/02/2014 22:24

I agree Novice - most people in demanding jobs have nannies 8-6 (minimum) or later...

I would always employ a cleaner as well - would expect live in nanny to do a little cleaning if the children are all out at school 9-4 (but would still have a cleaner) but wouldn't expect any cleaning if younger kids at home, perhaps some kids laundry during lunchtime sleep.

eg When my kids were little I would cook for them in evenings and weekends as I knew the nanny wouldn't have time in the day, but now they are older at school, the nanny has time to do some cooking. Different expectations.

re: 5 children I actually think thats too many for a nanny after school, would be worth seeing if you can get some extra help each day..

Objection · 10/02/2014 10:30

All of these people who are going on about how the wage isn't comparable because there are no bills to pay - have you ever lived in a ROOM in your EMPLOYERS house?! Nothing is yours, everything feels like you're using other people's things. It is not comparable to living in your own home and having your rent and bills paid!!!

My nanny jobs tend to be live in and I don't mind living in but I get to go to my own house at the weekends. As a live in you're pretty confined to your own room and there is always a lingering feeling of being on duty all the time.

Can people stop comparing it with normal jobs covering rent?