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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is my dad or my dh? And am I for even asking?

256 replies

inabitofadilemma · 03/02/2014 00:28

I'm in a bit of a dilemma.

Me and DH have been together for 14 years, two kids and one on the the way. We jointly own our house. Originally, we both put in savings of about 30,000 pounds as a down payment. We did well from selling and buying at the right time and renovating a run down house and took advantage of low interest rates and paid down the mortgage. My Dad gave us 40,000 pounds a few years ago to help with mortgage and renovations. Currently our house is worth about 400,000 and we have equity of 200,000.

My Dad is now wrapping up and selling his business so he can retire properly. He's done very very well out of the super high prime London prices because his business had some real estate there. As a result, he's offered to help us pay off the mortgage and upgrade our house because it'll be tight with the third child. Altogether he's offered to give us 350,000 pounds. This is, of course, a huge amount of money and will allow us to buy a bigger house mortgage free. I'm fully aware that this is very generous and we're incredibly lucky to be in this position.

However, he's stipulated a condition. Only my name on the house. He's willing to sign an agreement that DH can have 'his' share plus whatever it's appreciated in the event that we divorce (and if I die that it's in the name of the children as a trust) BUT the house MUST be in my name.

My Dad says that this is to protect me. He does actually really like DH, it's not like they've ever had any issues. They get on really well. But he says that things can change. His biggest fear is that we divorce (or I die), DH gets remarried and half of the money he gave to me ends up with another woman and her children.

DH is incredibly insulted by this especially because he always got on with my Dad. He says he will feel uncomfortable living in a home that's not his and he's very upset. We've never thought on these terms, always had a joint account and apart from the money my Dad gave us a few years ago, it's always been kind of even. DH works less than me and earns less but he's with the kids more so neither of us think of our money other than as joint money. We had a joint account before we even got married.

DH is kind of angry with me for not fighting his corner more. But I feel bad fighting with my Dad when he's about to help us out so much, I feel ungrateful doing so like some kind of spoilt brat. I totally get where DH is coming from but I also understand my Dad's reasoning. It's just how he is (he's lived with his partner for 20 years and in his will, he's very very clear about what she's entitled to and what she's not - and it's not much - in fact, I had to tell him to change it to leave her more!). My Dad is also helping my brother out in a similar way with a similar condition but they don't seem bothered by it.

So who is being unreasonable here? My Dad who is insisting that only my name is on the house? Or DH who feels hurt and insulted and thinks i should be fighting his corner more?

We could, of course, turn down my Dad's offer. We're also happy as we are, can make mortgage repayments and pay our bills just fine and carry on in our house, we'd just be a bit cramped. So it's not like we NEED this to just survive. But then i think that might be unfair to the DC because this is really THEIR money at the end of the day. And it's very hard to turn down the tempatation of a bigger house and being mortgage free.

OP posts:
diddl · 04/02/2014 12:43

So what if the parent left in the house wants to move out?

DavenotChas · 04/02/2014 12:45

Could your dad buy a place in the children's names with the £350k that you can use as a rental property?
A percentage of the rent accrued monthly could go into your family pot enabling you and your DH to buy a larger property for when DC3 is slightly older. Just a suggestion and one that both your Dad and Husband might be happier with. The home that you live in will belong to you and DH with no conditions and the children will have an asset when they are older.

aquashiv · 04/02/2014 12:51

I think your Dadb is right. It's his money and he can gift it to you in what ever way he sees fit. I would look at having an equity split. There is no issue for your husband if you never split just an improved lifestyle.

NotNewButNameChanged · 04/02/2014 12:53

A gift with strings is never a gift, in my book.

Callaird · 04/02/2014 12:55

diddl. The parent can move out if they wish, however the house will me mine and my brothers, if we chose, but both of us would have to agree, we could give them some money to purchase another property and they would still have their allowance.

My parents have agreed to this, they wrote their wills together. It is what they want. My brother and I had nothing to do with the wills being drawn up and we only found out what they contained when they adapted them recently (they had them drawn up almost 30 years ago, when I was still a teenager)

aquashiv · 04/02/2014 12:57

I would not expect your husband to relinquish his equity that's madness

fanjobiscuits · 04/02/2014 13:00

I would be annoyed if I were your dp. Could you get an offset mortgage and you keep the £350k in an account in your name only? That way the house is both of yours, you
both benefit from the money, but it stays as yours.

MerryWinterfel · 04/02/2014 13:31

I think your Dad is right. Easy for a solicitor to make it so your share of the house is proportionately higher than your husbands. Your husband shouldn't be insulted, he should support your dads need to feel comfortable with his gift.

Asheth · 04/02/2014 13:36

Is a gift really a gift if there's any stipulations attached? When my DH inherited from his DM the money payed off our mortgage. But the house is still in both our names.

NotNewButNameChanged · 04/02/2014 14:03

Merry - which makes it no longer an equal partnership, which is what a marriage is all about, isn't it? OP has said they've always had a joint account and it's "always been kind of even". Not any more, if Dad has his way.

Shall they start splitting the bills by proportion, too? "Oh look, 70% of the shopping is actual your stuff this week, so I'm only going to pay MY share?"

inabitofadilemma · 04/02/2014 14:07

First thanks for all the helpful input. I found myself agreeing almost with every poster even with opposing views!

Anyway, spoken with my Dad and DH. What we're going to do is that DH will be on deeds of house. We are going to meet with a lawyer and sit down and sign an agreement whereby my Dad's contribution is recognised and protected. This means that as long as one of us is living in the house (or another house) all well and good, even in the event of divorce or death. If we want to spend the money, it has to be on the children's welfare or living expenses. And we can't gift the money or leave the money to anyone but the children and we're both going to set up wills to that effect as well.

DH is happy with this and so is my Dad (who didn't realise that not having spouse on deeds wouldn't protect the asset in the event of a divorce) . Of course, there's still some risk but, as posters have pointed out, when you give money away there is always some risk. It's also fair because it means I can't give the money away either. I pointed out to my Dad that DH could die, I could get dementia and some gold digger could marry me and get 'his money' which is also a scenario he'd want to avoid. So this way neither DH nor I can gift or will this money to anyone but the children and it's not singling out DH as being the one who'd screw the kids over!

The situation is a bit more complex that I laid out but it wasn't relevant to the question and the post was long enough so I didn't go into the details but tax implications are taken care of and, where needed, money's been put aside for taxes.

OP posts:
Oriunda · 04/02/2014 14:13

Glad you got it sorted, sounds like a good plan. Obviously you will be taking advice, but consider investing in a pension fund for each child. They are tax efficient (you pay 80% and the govt contributes 20%) and the cash cannot be touched by you, and not by your child until they are 55. You can gift your children a good start to their retirement.

Bluegrass · 04/02/2014 14:17

Sounds like a sensible solution. Am v jealous though, would love to live mortgage free, can't even imagine it really! Enjoy :-)

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 04/02/2014 14:17

Why don't you buy a second property with the money from your dad and the rental income will help you pay mortgage towards the new bigger house for you and your family. That way the buy-to-let property will be in your name and the new bigger family home in both of your names/

NotNewButNameChanged · 04/02/2014 14:21

Drink some posters did suggest that

TeacupDrama · 04/02/2014 14:23

GLAD to hear it where there is money it needs to be protected and provision for tax it sounds now like everyone is being sensible and moving forward having planned for the future rather than just hoping it all works out somehow

tb · 04/02/2014 14:24

Just a comment about common law spouses.

The ex of a friend died. He was engaged, but had no intention of re-marrying, it was just so he could get his leg over. Charmer!

His fiancée lived with him, and he refused to let her contribute in any to the council tax, gas/elec as he didn't want her to have any financial claim on the property.

He died suddenly, and her solicitor argued, that she should have money from the estate as her late fiancé wanted her looked after financially. She got £80k and a car with a personalised plate out of a £600K estate. Btw, she already owned her own house although she didn't live in it.

Notmadeofrib · 04/02/2014 14:24

They are married, any asset becomes a marital asset. That helps with estate planning but not much else.

Notmadeofrib · 04/02/2014 14:34

drink plus the issue of CGT and tax on income...

A trust. A trust. A trust.

Minnieisthedevilmouse · 04/02/2014 15:09

Great! Ultimately you're daft not to find a way as guessing your mortgage is say 2k a month. Having 2k back per month would change my/our life dramatically. To turn that down without legal advice on it is madness.

MrsOakenshield · 04/02/2014 15:50

sounds like a good solution, OP.

Adeleh · 04/02/2014 16:57

And you get your lovely new house. Congratulations. Hope you can enjoy feeling excited about it all now.

onedev · 04/02/2014 18:57

Glad it's all worked out!

Musicaltheatremum · 04/02/2014 19:08

What ever you decide. You need water tight legal advice to minimise problems and tax and yes the 7 years from a gift of money applies with regard to paying tax.

perfectstorm · 04/02/2014 19:13

tb that has nothing to do with "common law spouses". I can see why people think it does, and what you describe sounds absolutely correct, but it's a bit more specific to death/dependants than that.

When someone dies, if they've got dependants - that means someone who they in some way provide for, so a cohabitant would feature, as would underage kids - then unless they explicitly state in the will that they have no intention of providing for them (and even then, it can be challenged) the dependant party can use the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 to make a claim on the estate. It's not limited to cohabitants, anyone who has in some way been financially supported by the deceased can claim, and we were told that the less you do to earn that support the better the claim, as it can't be in any way a salary situation.

That doesn't mean the fiance can't boot the other out of the home at any time, on a whim, without their having a claim. It solely protects if someone dies and doesn't make reasonable provision in the will.

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