Is my dad or my dh? And am I for even asking?

[inabitofadilemma]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma.

Me and DH have been together for 14 years, two kids and one on the the way. We jointly own our house. Originally, we both put in savings of about 30,000 pounds as a down payment. We did well from selling and buying at the right time and renovating a run down house and took advantage of low interest rates and paid down the mortgage. My Dad gave us 40,000 pounds a few years ago to help with mortgage and renovations. Currently our house is worth about 400,000 and we have equity of 200,000.

My Dad is now wrapping up and selling his business so he can retire properly. He's done very very well out of the super high prime London prices because his business had some real estate there. As a result, he's offered to help us pay off the mortgage and upgrade our house because it'll be tight with the third child. Altogether he's offered to give us 350,000 pounds. This is, of course, a huge amount of money and will allow us to buy a bigger house mortgage free. I'm fully aware that this is very generous and we're incredibly lucky to be in this position.

However, he's stipulated a condition. Only my name on the house. He's willing to sign an agreement that DH can have 'his' share plus whatever it's appreciated in the event that we divorce (and if I die that it's in the name of the children as a trust) BUT the house MUST be in my name.

My Dad says that this is to protect me. He does actually really like DH, it's not like they've ever had any issues. They get on really well. But he says that things can change. His biggest fear is that we divorce (or I die), DH gets remarried and half of the money he gave to me ends up with another woman and her children.

DH is incredibly insulted by this especially because he always got on with my Dad. He says he will feel uncomfortable living in a home that's not his and he's very upset. We've never thought on these terms, always had a joint account and apart from the money my Dad gave us a few years ago, it's always been kind of even. DH works less than me and earns less but he's with the kids more so neither of us think of our money other than as joint money. We had a joint account before we even got married.

DH is kind of angry with me for not fighting his corner more. But I feel bad fighting with my Dad when he's about to help us out so much, I feel ungrateful doing so like some kind of spoilt brat. I totally get where DH is coming from but I also understand my Dad's reasoning. It's just how he is (he's lived with his partner for 20 years and in his will, he's very very clear about what she's entitled to and what she's not - and it's not much - in fact, I had to tell him to change it to leave her more!). My Dad is also helping my brother out in a similar way with a similar condition but they don't seem bothered by it.

So who is being unreasonable here? My Dad who is insisting that only my name is on the house? Or DH who feels hurt and insulted and thinks i should be fighting his corner more?

We could, of course, turn down my Dad's offer. We're also happy as we are, can make mortgage repayments and pay our bills just fine and carry on in our house, we'd just be a bit cramped. So it's not like we NEED this to just survive. But then i think that might be unfair to the DC because this is really THEIR money at the end of the day. And it's very hard to turn down the tempatation of a bigger house and being mortgage free.

I can see your dads POV. If I was in his position I would do exactly the same as him.

My DH is set to get quite a lot of inheritance and I wouldn't be offended if the same conditions came with that money.

I can see your DH's POV, I just don't think it would stop me from accepting £350,000.

Ask your dh what he would do if he was in your dad's position one day?

It depends how much your DH really minds. It is not worth introducing ongoing tension into a good marriage for the sake of a gift of money. Personally I would not want to live in a house where my name was not on the deeds. But I also totally understand your dad's position.

I dont think your dad is being UR. Its his money and you are his daughter. My Dsis was married with 2 dc to a man my dad really really got on with. Even more so than my DH even though he had known my DH for double the time but mainly because they were into the same things. My Dsis and BIL have now split. Turns out he has been EA for years and has been violent in drink. My dad cant stand him now. Not saying your DH is the same but your dad doesnt know what the future will bring and is being sensible.

I would agree with the stipulation and think DH would too.

I don't think you should take the money if it comes with conditions. It's an attempt to control you. If he wants to be generous, then he should just be generous and not use it to make you do certain things. I regret money I have taken from my father because it always came with conditions. Live your own life.

Bloody hell I think your husband is being unreasonable here!

Your Dad has the right to stipulate how his money is given and you have the right to say yay or nay. I think you should either accept the money graciously and use it to improve your life or ask your dad to put it in trust for your children. What I wouldn't be doing is trying to change your dad's mind and allowing your husband to possibly take half if you end up in the divorce courts.

Mumsnet weighted towards your Dad, OP. Though I see why your DP is upset, Andypipkin is spot on.

birdmomma

I don't think my Dad's trying to control. He just wants to make sure that the money is for a better quality of life for me and the dc.

I wonder if the genders were reversed, husband's family want home in his name only, if some posters would be quite so emphatic - I think the word financial abuse would be chucked around.

My advice (whichever gender was involved) would be to tell the father, thanks, but no thanks. I could see this driving a wedge between you, your husband and your father and as someone mentioned upthread may be legally unenforceable. I think this gift comes with too many strings attached.

Composhat

My dad is doing the same to my DB and SIL. They seem totally OK with it.

Well OP says her SIL fine with the same situation. OP's Dad looking out for both his children equally, regardless of gender. Pretty big loss to OP and husband and children not to feel she can accept.

Sorry X post.

Why not use the £350,000 to buy an investment property in your name only. The rental income can then be used to help pay the mortgage on a bigger property jointly owned by you and your husband. In the event of a split, you'll get 50% of the family home plus all of the investment property.

Your Dad doesn't understand the law very well.

You're married, which means if you split, all assets would go into a shared pot and be divided according to what you agreed, or if you couldn't agree, according to what a judge thought was fair. The starting point of division is 50/50, and the law is gender-blind (though if there's not enough money for a home for the kids to be carved from that 50/50 split, the primary carer generally does better - but even then, there's often a delayed share of the house accorded to any non-resident parent, in recognition of fairness - a Mesher order). If the house is in your name, then your DH has the right to lodge a charge against the house on the Land Register asserting his matrimonial right to inhabit it, so it couldn't be sold or mortgaged without his consent, either.

If you died and left everything to your DH, there'd be no inheritance tax payable. There would be if you left it to the kids. So there would be tax advantages in leaving it to him, too. At which point, just as with a divorce, who originally gave the money would stop mattering.

I'd tell your DH you and he need to see a solicitor, just to make sure everything I just said is right (could all be bollocks, obviously! ) but as far as I can see, your father's intentions aren't possible under the law unless he sets this up as some sort of trust, which would be for the benefit solely of you and the kids. If it's a free gift to you, the only stipulation being that your name is on the deeds, as others have said he's donating a matrimonial asset, so effectively your husband has a claim whatever.

Your husband might be a little less inclined to refuse if he knows that, maybe? Though I can see why he's hurt, the chance to upgrade to an amazing house, mortgage free, presumably would weigh more?

We need to speak with a lawyer about how matrimonial assets would be split. This could all be a moot point anyhow.

Perfectstorm

I think it might be the other way around. DH would be on the deeds but we'd have some kind of a legal agreement protecting the assets if possible. I think that solution could be the more acceptable one for DH and looks like it would be the one that would achieve more what my dad is trying to do so he'd be happy as well. But, yes, legal advice desperately needed!!!

I'm fairly sure it is, which may well explain your SIL's relaxed approach: she knows it's her money anyway, whatever your father intends. Seriously - talk to a solicitor.

Well no problems for them then. It might work for their relationship, but not for yours.

Your situation is different: your husband is unhappy, feeling pushed out and slighted and I can see why. He is in a vulnerable position (not dissimilar to a WAHM) his reduced work hours and childcare responsibility will have hampered his career prospects, so if the marriage breaks down he could be snookered. I am convinced that if a woman on a low income/not working was presented with a husband offering an ultimatum of 'the house goes into my name only' the response, quite rightly. would be, don't do it.

If you do go down that route, I would check if putting the house in your name actually made any difference on legal terms, as it could cause tons of grief for no real purpose.

DH would be on the deeds but we'd have some kind of a legal agreement protecting the assets if possible. I think that solution could be the more acceptable one for DH and looks like it would be the one that would achieve more what my dad is trying to do so he'd be happy as well.

I do think you need expert matrimonial legal advice for this, yeah. If the children aren't mentioned as having a beneficial interest in it I'm not sure what your father intends is possible, in terms of it being divorce-proof - be very interested to find out, though! Update us when you find out? And all this aside - WOOHOO for your lovely new prospective house; how exciting!

In fairness to your Dad, I'd never blame anyone for being realistic. How many threads on MN show women who were certain their DHs were lovely men and great husbands, only for them to change personality when they met an OW? I wouldn't buy a house with a guy without being married, tbh, if I planned to have kids with him. If your father wants to be certain the money will go to you and his gc, that's not an unfair desire. I can see his point. However much you know and love anyone, you can't ever guarantee future behaviour.

Were we live, abroad, the bank would only accept DH on the deeds. That is because we are forrin and I am a woman. Despite the fact that it was bank and not DH ten years down the line I am totally done with living in his house and the only upside is that I have no liabilities here. If things go wrong I could decide not to return from our next tríp back and I will have lost nothing, because I own nothing.

I can see your DF's point, but he is BU. He could put money into something else for you/DCs.

We have recently done this with our married dd. it was very easy legally, they own the house as tenants in common and the solicitor drew up a deed which stated the percentage share which was our dd's( which reflected the money we gave her) and the percentage which was dsils, taking account of the equally shared mortgage etc.Where your father is being vvvvv u is in saying the house should only be in your name when you have equity you have built up together He needs to understand that 'his' money can be protected through the deed arrangement. Then hopefully your DH would consider unequal but fair shares of ownership would be acceptable.

bourdic

I think my Dad will be OK with both of us on the deeds if his share can be protected. That's his issue. He doesn't want to screw DH over at all. Poor DH is more upset about my Dad's opinion of him. He lost his Dad when he was young and he's always got on so well with my Dad. This has made him feel like shit and i feel quite sad because not of it can now be 'undone'.

I do understand your DH feeling hurt, especially if your Dad's been like a father figure, but if you ask him to imagine giving money to your kids in 20 years time, would he really not want to do everything he could to protect it for them?
Sounds like there are q a few misunderstandings, not least with how best to manage it legally. There will be a solution, and you'll have a great house, and hopefully your DF and DH will see where each other is coming from.

Thanks for the positivity Adeleh! I feel like the money should be making us happier but really it's making us a bit miserable right now so that you for that!

I think neither your Dad (for wanting to look out for his daughter and GC) nor your DH (for thinking "what does that mean you really think of me then?") are being unreasonable here.

Ultimately your Dad wants to see you and his GC looked after. He is right in that if you die & your DH marries again, any children of the new union (or children of new wife from previous relationship) could have a claim on what your dad sees as "his family's money". Any future children or step children of your DH aren't "his family" if you aren't involved. Likewise you could lose half in a split which isn't what your dad wants either.

Your DH on the other hand is suddenly feeling like he's not family after all, which is a kick in the teeth after so many years together and children. Conversations which involve theoretical future partners / children / death / infidelity etc are always upsetting which is probably why so few people have them.

Agree with all the above advice - you need a specialist legal opinion on the best way to proceed such that you and your children can benefit from your dad's generosity without your DH being upset by it.

FWIW I've had these discussions with my DH - in that I'm the major earner, it's my salary and hard work and sacrifice that has enabled us to be where we are and if I die or we split I don't want DW2 or her children benefitting from what should be my children's future. So our house and savings are all in a family trust that only named beneficiaries (DH, me, boys) can benefit from. If the house is sold the money goes back to the trust and can only be used if it's for the boys best interests.