Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if you think that Knox is guilty?

656 replies

superstarheartbreaker · 31/01/2014 22:08

I have no idea but it seems that her kissing her boyfriend at the time was seen as suspicious whereas I don't think that this is suspicious at all. DNA is...kissing one's lover.no. It's not even that inappropriate to kiss ones lover in the face of tragedy.
Didn't she do cartwheels though?

OP posts:
AlfAlf · 05/02/2014 22:03

There are so many contradictory stories and so much BS out there about this case. I don't think I've ever read so much about a crime - or felt the need to for that matter - , but now that I've read a lot the evidence and analysis of that evidence, I believe AK and RS are innocent.

I've felt ghoulish at times trawling through it and even had a few nightmares, but motivated really by trying to work out what the truth is. I'm glad I persevered, otherwise I'd have somewhat lazily gone with then guilty charge (I've changed my mind a few times about this case over the years, usually going with the latest verdict, sheeplike).

I think you have summed it up, Porto.

I feel incredibly sad for Meredith Kercher and her family. I see her beautiful, smiling face and can't begin to comprehend their loss. I hope they will be able to find some peace.

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 05/02/2014 22:05

& you know the site you linked to is a guilters' site?

So very prejudiced indeed

trixymalixy · 05/02/2014 22:08

Agree Alf. I feel the Italian police have really let down Meredith's family. IMO In their pursuit of their far fetched theories they have managed to let the real culprit off with a ludicrously low sentence.

PortofinoRevisited · 05/02/2014 22:15

I agree Trixy - I despair that they drag this out and out. They caught the murderer back in 2007. Tis a combination of face saving and a media thing that a single black man convicted for murder doesn't good headlines make.

Birdsighland · 05/02/2014 22:28

I don't understand, TheOne. Crini is summing up the dna results. Meredith's dna was on the blade, irrespective of agenda. And AK's dna was found on two swabs on the handle.

Birdsighland · 05/02/2014 22:38

But TheOne, it is summing up a contribution by Crini at the Florence trial. It is translating his words, so anybody else's agenda is also There is a link which goes to the actual Italian, but I'm afraid I don't speak italian.

Could you please post a link to a direct English translation from the Florence trial (as this is the most relevant now)? It might be good for all to be able to check the original source. All agendas would be avoided then.

I remember reading Lance Armstrong's book in which he said the testers were out to get him.

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 05/02/2014 22:41

Birdsighland, try reading \link{http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/TheKnife.html\this site} about the knife - see if it alters your opinion

prh47bridge · 05/02/2014 22:43

Thanks for that link.

So they tested a sample on the knife and found Knox's DNA which is not surprising. Then Crini alleged that the reports in the press that the knife did not have Kercher's DNA are inaccurate. But the independent experts were unequivocal. Stefanoni's conclusion that Kercher's DNA was on the knife was not supported by any scientific analysis of the evidence.

If I'm being strictly accurate it is true that this does not prove that Kercher's DNA was not on the knife. But it means there is no proof that it was on the knife. There is no evidence it was the murder weapon.

Looking at his statements, it seems he was attempting to use the test on swab I to discredit the report of the independent experts. They had found no cellular material in that sample.

The information from sample I is of no relevance to guilt or innocence. Knox's DNA on the knife tells us nothing. I don't know if the fact the latest test recovered DNA was due to advances in techniques or failings in the techniques used by the independent experts. Either way it does not prove that Kercher's DNA was on the blade nor does it in any way undermine the criticisms of Stefanoni's evidence by the independent researchers since those criticisms were based on discrepancies between her evidence and her records, and persistent failure to follow established procedures for carrying out LCN DNA testing.

According to an anti-Knox site, Crini said that guidelines regarding DNA testing were just for guidance and this did not necessarily mean that we should discard a piece of evidence, no matter how important and clear, whenever a test is not repeatable. That is scientific twaddle. If you fail to follow the guidelines your results may not be correct. If you fail to follow the guidelines and your test is not repeatable the "evidence" MUST be discarded as it is not reliable.

prh47bridge · 05/02/2014 22:45

Meredith's dna was on the blade, irrespective of agenda

According to the independent experts engaged by the appeal court to review Stefanoni's tests there is no evidence whatsoever that Meredith's DNA was on the blade. They found nothing in Stefanoni's notes and results that supported the evidence she gave in court. So no, Meredith's DNA is not on the blade irrespective of agenda.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 05/02/2014 22:52

I just noticed "handle of the knife" autocorrected to "handkerchief" above.

Thanks, iphone.

PortofinoRevisited · 05/02/2014 22:56

Now we all think of you as shallow and worried about handkerchiefs Grin

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 05/02/2014 22:58
PortofinoRevisited · 05/02/2014 22:59

And claig has started her DM view on the other thread. I DO appreciate how hard it is to look at this case in an unbiased way.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 05/02/2014 23:18

PRH, I don't understand on what grounds the Supreme Court quashed those findings in the acquittal?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 05/02/2014 23:31

Separ

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 05/02/2014 23:33

Separately I think it's interesting that I have no idea if the other two flatmates kissed their boyfriends at the police station...

prh47bridge · 06/02/2014 00:45

The Supreme Court criticised the independent experts for deciding that the I sample should not be tested for DNA after finding that their was no trace of cellular material, which basically means that no DNA could be recovered for testing using the techniques available at the time. The judges believed the test should have been carried out anyway and believed that, had this been done, it may have revealed the presence of MK's DNA. Why they believed they knew better than the experts whether or not a test was viable is unclear. Of course, we now know they were wrong in conjecturing that MK's DNA would be found - the DNA now identified in the I sample is from AK so does not confirm the theory that this knife was the murder weapon.

Unbelievably, they then criticised the independent experts for their insistence that Stefanoni should have followed established methods for her testing, stating that "the skill of the operator and his good sense" must also be considered. They went on to say that all DNA analyses since 1986 would be put into question if there was an insistence on following established protocols. If they are right DNA profiling is an art, not a science, and should not be given the respect it currently enjoys in the courts. They are, of course, wrong. DNA profiling is a science. For the operator to produce valid results they must follow established methods.

The prosecution argued that it is not enough for the independent experts to show that the samples had not been handled properly creating the possibility of contamination. According to the prosecution it was necessary for the independent experts to prove exactly how the contamination occurred. I doubt you would find many forensic scientists who agreed with that proposition. But the judges accepted the prosecution argument, stating that the acquittal, "is based on the erroneous belief that the burden of proving the absence of contaminants was on the prosecution". That belief is not in any way erroneous. Indeed, I know that some experts believe an appeal to the ECHR would overturn the Supreme Court's view on this point.

I haven't read the whole of the Supreme Court judgement but the part of it relating to the forensic evidence reads like the worst of our own Appeal Court judgements - a frantic attempt to twist the evidence in order to uphold a guilty verdict rather than admit that the original court got it wrong.

prh47bridge · 06/02/2014 01:00

Apologies for the typo in the first sentence - their -> there.

AchyFox · 06/02/2014 01:14

prh has the Supreme court now issued its full reasonings ?

I thought they had 90 days and that it was still awaited.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 06/02/2014 06:26

"Where is everybody else getting original source material (but translated) from? Rather than second hand and media stuff."

I am not reading anything which has been translated, (I distrust particularly anything the Daily Telegraph uses, after its part in the forced c section that actually wasn't debacle) I am an on call Italian court translator, and so anything I am putting on here which has been translated has been done by me. (ie the interview with Hellmann after his ruling) I expect there is a translation of that interview around but, modestly, I trust my own more. Grin

llsharman · 06/02/2014 06:29

I just don't believe she's guilty.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 06/02/2014 06:57

Achyfox- the first "Supreme court" (Cassazione) ruling is the one which ordered that the second trial (in which their sentence was quashed) be re-done.

We have just finished Appeal trial n 2 and now there will be Cassazione n 2 in due course.

Confused? So are we, and we live here!

DrankSangriaInThePark · 06/02/2014 07:01

(and the report due in 90 days is the one from Appeal trial n 2)

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 06/02/2014 07:17

Thank you PRH.

Pumpkin567 · 06/02/2014 09:55

She might be guilty but I don't think the evidence is strong enough to prove it so she should be free, because she might also be innocent.

Shambles all round really.