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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if you think that Knox is guilty?

656 replies

superstarheartbreaker · 31/01/2014 22:08

I have no idea but it seems that her kissing her boyfriend at the time was seen as suspicious whereas I don't think that this is suspicious at all. DNA is...kissing one's lover.no. It's not even that inappropriate to kiss ones lover in the face of tragedy.
Didn't she do cartwheels though?

OP posts:
Robfordscrack · 02/02/2014 19:18

she didn't cartwheel. She did the splits. She was stretching as she was waiting in a room for so long.

TheSnowQueen · 02/02/2014 20:02

No problem alfalf. It was about 3 years ago i looked at it but started by looking for answers to the questions that confused me. So

  1. Was there definitely more than one attacker?
  2. Were AK and RS's bloody footprints in the house?
  3. What did the phone records say about AK and RS's wherabouts?
  4. What were the timings and how does the narrative work if they were all involved?
  5. What relationships were there between MK, RS, AK and RG?
Think i did end up reading pretty much the whole thing. You can argue it's ghoulish to do so, but i was really horrified by the case and the idea that MK was killed by her flatmate and in such a brutal way. Like you, i couldn't trust any of the summarised information out there, and there were a lot more lies kicking about back then too.
PortofinoRevisited · 02/02/2014 20:29

Add message | Report | Message poster lottieandmia Sun 02-Feb-14 17:14:21
I just read something else about the case. Apparently one of the main reasons that AK was suspected by the police was that her first testimony was very similar to that of Rudy Guede, suggesting they were both there at the time Meredith was killed. That still doesn't mean she participated in the murder. But is it possible she was actually there and knows more than she let on.

This is nonsense - AK was already arrested before they even KNEW about Rudi Guede.

PortofinoRevisited · 02/02/2014 20:32

There have been several "pin it on the black guy" comments - on this thread or the other one. If Amanda was going to pin it on the black guy - you'd think she would pin it on the right one, surely?

prh47bridge · 02/02/2014 20:38

Innocent people don't tend to blame other innocent people for a crime

Happens far more often than you might think. In the days before the police recorded interviews with suspects it was very common. The Italian police still do not record interviews. There are huge discrepancies between AK's version of the initial interview and the police version of that interview. I am of the view that there is no way of knowing which version of events is true but Knox's account accords with the type of thing we know our own police used to do prior to recording of interviews.

Didn't someone say that was a bloody footprint of AK in a different room

No. There was a bloody footprint said to be that of RS in the bathroom. All the footprints in the murder room show shoes being worn. The prosecution gave measurements that showed the footprint was a much better match for RS than RG. The defence dispute some of those measurements believing the print of the big toe and the next toe have run together. The print is of a bare foot. The prosecution argue that there was no reason for RG to remove his shoes. I can't see any reason why RS would remove his either. Even if it is RS there is still the central problem with the case against AK and RS - the murder room producing lots of evidence showing that RG was present but none at all showing the presence of AK or RS.

I would have thought that if there was really no incriminating that they would be satisfied with RG being convicted for it

The police can be very persuasive. It is not uncommon for the family of the victim to accept the police version of events and stick with it despite lack of evidence. Indeed, in some cases the victim's family stick with the police theory despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

awaynboilyurheid · 02/02/2014 20:39

I think she is guilty but last time got into an argument about it on here so
being more wary this time, but as my daughter was on her erasmus abroad at the same timeI just get chilled when I read about it feel so sorry for the Kercher family they are so dignified , but they do not want any contact with Amanda and I think that speaks volumes.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 02/02/2014 20:43

what does confuse me - why would there be any bloody, bare footprints?

tinpotted · 02/02/2014 20:44

I really think they were innocent. Everything that was presented to the public from the first headlines about 'foxy knoxy' was very very biased and sensational to sell newspapers - long before the trial. She was made out to be this man eater when she was treated absolutely atrociously, and because he was her boyfriend, RS got caught up in the media circus. The prosecution alleged stories about sexual deviants because there was no other motive to tie AK and RS to the murder, and the media were so enchanted by this, their stories were published along these lines and so a vicious circle was created. The published stories gave credibility to the prosecution etc etc. Remember that both AK and RS were subject to gagging orders and were given no opportunity to refute any such allegations against them for 4 years, (except when in trial). So all stories remained on record without being challenged.

AK was interrogated when she only knew a smattering of Italian, and when she couldn't satisfy police with her answers was asked to come up with theories of what might have happened. Because she had a call from PL that day, she was questioned in light of this, and the police asked her to speculate about PL which she did and then wanted to clarify later but was told she had made an official statement. Remember, she didn't speak the language fluently and could easily be led so I don't think any of her statements then should be held against her. There was no interpreter.

Red herrings off the top of my head include :
-10,000 pages of evidence - can we see them anywhere and who can testify as to their accuracy or credibility?
-RSs computer - its often mentioned it had been tampered with but how does that affect what happened?
-the fact that she did cartwheels - apparently she did some stretching at the station, and lecherous police were impressed and asked her to show them what she could do)
-the fact she wasn't grieving or checked MKs room .They weren't close - have any of you ever lived in a digs? I have in London years ago, and could go days without checking on, speaking to or having anything to do with some flatmates who could have been in the room next door. If one of them got murdered I'd be shocked but don't know about grieving. Very little of my DNA would be found in their room as I just never went in if they weren't friends.

It would be interesting if we could all just check our allegations against an official court record (has one been published?). At the moment, posters (including me) are just flinging facts around with no proof as to how accurate they are. Someone (I think Sassh) said that think they are guilty because of the evidence presented in court. How do any of us who weren't in court know what evidence was presented? The papers cannot be relied upon.

Someone else said that she named PL in the first hour, when I heard it was after hours of questioning, and being asked to come up with theories.

Again, so much dilution of the facts because everyone has their own set of facts. One thing that shocked me was AK was told by prison doctors that she had AIDS and so she compiled a list of the people she had slept with, presumably so they could be contacted, and this list was stolen and exploited by the media as a 'notch on the bedpost' brag and evidence of her sexual addiction - more proof that she would rape Meredith.

I feel so sorry for the Kerchers who are living a nightmare but putting two innocent people in prison will not balance out the loss of MK. She has not been forgotten about as many people state, it is just that if you believe AK and RS are not guilty as many people do, justice would be even less served by condemning them to prison for years.

prh47bridge · 02/02/2014 20:47

they do not want any contact with Amanda and I think that speaks volumes

All that tells us is that they think AK is guilty. It does not tell us anything at all about whether or not she really is guilty.

I just cannot reconcile her reactions with innocence

There have been a number of comments along these lines on this thread. Having read a lot about miscarriages of justice I am very wary of reading anything into people's reactions following a murder. I have seen innocent people variously accused of showing too much grief (i.e. putting on a show), showing too little grief and generally behaving in ways that the prosecution claim is not natural. I have come to the conclusion that there is no "natural" and drawing inferences from people's behaviour in this way is very dangerous.

Nancy66 · 02/02/2014 20:49

tinpotted - much of that is unsubstantiated Knox fantasy.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 02/02/2014 20:59

i'd love to know where the hell this 'drug-fuelled' nonsense came from! what evidence is there to suggest they were off their faces?

prh47bridge · 02/02/2014 20:59

why would there be any bloody, bare footprints

Interesting question to which I don't have an answer. Oddly there were no other bloody footprints outside the murder room. The one in question was a partial print on the bathmat. The heel print is missing. There were other footprints belonging to AK and RS in the apartment but, as it is common ground that they had been in the apartment prior to the arrival of the police on the morning following the murder, these don't have any evidential value.

The prosecution argue that for this to be RG's footprint he must have removed his shoe and sock then hopped to the bathroom which is highly unlikely. I fail to see how RS removing his shoe and sock then hopping to the bathroom is more likely.

HoleySocksBatman · 02/02/2014 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tinpotted · 02/02/2014 21:38

Nancy66 - which bits? AK and RS were not allowed a public voice for 4 years, so everything that was alleged about what they said and what they did is down to 3rd parties.

I haven't read any of the recent stuff (last few weeks) but I remember looking into this in a lot of detail in the weeks before they were acquitted on appeal and thinking about how they were caught up in a perfect storm, and this was before they had ever said anything publicly. So for you to say it's unsubstantiated Knox fantasy is completely idiotic and obtuse.

If however, you countered my points to say ' x could be true, but y is false because ....' I would have some respect for your opinion, because it would show that you actually gave some thought to the issues at hand. As things are, I don't.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 02/02/2014 21:44

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24534110

for anyone who's convinced of their guilt by the dna on the knife, this is an interesting read.

LessMissAbs · 02/02/2014 21:46

When I was that age and a student, I barely knew what was going on. I certainly wouldn't have had the presence of mind, living abroad, to act in a way which showed innocence before cameras when my flatmate had just been murdered. I wouldn't have known how to respond to goady Italian policemen either.

It all just sounds so far fetched.

The other issue is that they have one convicted murderer in prison for the crime already. What is this obsession with convicting two other people? Just who's ego rests on this? And I do agree that more than one person may have been involved, so the prospect that another guilty party or parties is getting away with it because of this obsession that Amanda Knox and anyone involved with her did it, is a very real one.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 02/02/2014 21:48

i don't think anyone else was involved tbh, just Guede. He's the only person who's admitted to being there when Meredith was dying. a multitude of injuries can be caused by one person.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 02/02/2014 21:54

Raffaele's computer could have provided valuable evidence for Raffaele's defense, but the evidence was destroyed by the police. Raffaele told the authorities that he was active on his computer at the time of Meredith's death. Raffaele's browsing history would have provided valuable information. This history was erased when the police at the station decided to use Raffaele's computer to surf the web. This was just another example of the extremely poor evidence handling in this case.

this is from a biased site but not beyond the realms of possibility.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 02/02/2014 21:58

"Because of the mad insane juridical system in Italy, the italian government has been sanctioned by the European Civil and Human Rights Court for 858 times. I repeat 858 TIMES! And the result is that the italian government pissed them off completely!!"

  • Raffaele Sollecito

will stop copying and pasting now.

PortofinoRevisited · 02/02/2014 21:58

Strangely, all the laptops, AK,RS Meredith's etc were all wiped when in police custody.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 02/02/2014 22:02

i don't believe for a second that the police were fair and appropriate at all times when it came to sollecito and particularly knox.

Nerfmother · 02/02/2014 22:06

Wiped in what way? Surely techs can recover deleted browsing history other wise how do the police find evidences in cases of paedophiles? . I don't remember reading this at all, I'm sure there was stuff in the book about computer activity showing up and looking odd. I shall check tho.

lottieandmia · 02/02/2014 22:12

Whatever the truth of the matter, the Italian judicial system is certainly corrupt. So says my Italian DP who I was discussing this with today. He also says that people who have committed violent crimes regularly get the chance for an early release.

lottieandmia · 02/02/2014 22:14

Yes computer evidence seems to have been significant in a number of recent cases in the UK.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 02/02/2014 22:14

well, look at rudy guede. had his sentence reduced, probably in exchange for implicating amanda and raffaele and will apparently be eligible for parole this year.