To ask if you think that Knox is guilty?

[superstarheartbreaker]

I have no idea but it seems that her kissing her boyfriend at the time was seen as suspicious whereas I don't think that this is suspicious at all. DNA is...kissing one's lover.no. It's not even that inappropriate to kiss ones lover in the face of tragedy.
Didn't she do cartwheels though?

Oh & the cartwheels were apparently yoga stretches... according to her own pr people

amazing she had time to do yoga stretches - what with her being interrogated and beaten for hours on end with no breaks

Please, can we finally get it straight about the Italian system.

Maybe the word "appeal" is what is confusing. All trials are held in 3 stages: The Assizes (AK/RS guilty) The Appeal (AK/RS innocent) The Cassazione (not yet held) NB the trial which ended on Thursday was the retrial of the Appeal stage.

It isn't really that their lawyers decide they want to appeal against a decision as we know it in the UK. It is simply the second stage of a trial, any trial. And it is called the Appeal Court because "apello" is "a calling" ie they get "called" again for the second look-at the crime and the evidence. If anything it means there are notably fewer miscarriages of justice in Italy, because, if you like, the courts get 3 lots of goes at examining the evidence.

I don't see what the Elisa Claps case has to offer in terms of proving that the Italian system is crapola.

As her body lay for 17 years on a church roof, while her killer was busy murdering people in Bournemouth, I'd say a combination of the Catholic Church and the British plod had their part to play as well.

(If you want to get your teeth into a really good Catholic Church murder conspiracy, have a look at Emanuela Orlandi. That should keep you going for a while )

Sangria, is it normal for there to be so
Long between the stages?

Oh, forgot to add, if the lawyers are happy with the verdict at any of the stages of trial due process, they can give up. Obv Bongiorno would have liked that to happen after Appeal 1 (but the prosecution didn't) whereas now, obv the prosecution are happy, but Bongiorno has filed to go to Cassazione.

Yes, I think so Doctrine. Italy is nothing if not the best at bureaucratic procrastination!

Yes WTF has Elisa Claps got to do with anything??? Apart from the fact I cant see how that means anything regarding the validity of the Italian justice system, if we are going to sit here and cherry pick cases showing corruption of the police and judiciary shall we look at all countries instead of just stereotyping Italy and insinuating it doesn't quite come up to the mark. Because there have been enough accusations of police corruption in recent years in the UK for example (Hillsborough, Stephen Lawrence et al) to sit here and play tit for tat all day. But at no point do I think that because of the travesty of injustice in these cases in the UK that therefore all convictions in UK criminal courts are automatically unsafe!
Personally if I was accused of a crime I would prefer to be here in Italy where I knew that I would have 3 opportunities for the evidence to be examined than in a common law country where my progression to a second stage etc wasn't automatic. Yes it means the process is frustratingly slow but better slow and 3 chances for innocence to be proven.

It dies seem to be the case that when people are involved in foreign cases the police/justice system is heavily criticised.
The McCanns in Portugal, This case, the recent custody battles in Australia and Switzerland.

It is, I think, a natural enough response Onesleep.

The Italians themselves (before it was revealed to be totally crap as a "story") in the recent "forced C-section" case. were very much up in arms about what had been done to one of theirs. Ditto at the moment, there are 2 Italian soldiers facing a murder charge in India and the coverage is the same. Dang those furriners who don't know what they are doing. An Italian is in jail in America for something about which he protests innocence, and the flawed American case is discussed endlessly.

It's a red herring though really. I'm sure if AK had been found guilty of something in America her supporters would be criticising a corrupt American system.

Yy Sangria and there's also a list in translation angle - for example "apello" and appeal.

I think she is innocent. I cannot see how it is possible for her to take part in this crime and not leave one speck of her DNA at the crime scene. Rudy Guede's DNA was all over the room but there was none of Amanda's, so there could not have been a clean up.

Everything else, in my opinion, is irrelevant. If someone can explain to me how she committed the crime without leaving a trace of her DNA in the room, I would like to hear it.

In respect of comments that AK may be somewhere on the autism spectrum (thus accounting for her lack of visible empathy and untypical behaviour in the police station and elsewhere) - has this been verified by her own team or otherwise? If she was, I would have thought the defence would want to point to this as the reason behind behaviour that the police officers and Meredith's british friends thought odd and inappropriate.

i agree 100 percent, Banished

I find it odd that no DNA was found.

Surely if you lived with someone and were "friends" there would naturally be DNA there?

Didn't someone say that was a bloody footprint of AK in a different room?

I just read something else about the case. Apparently one of the main reasons that AK was suspected by the police was that her first testimony was very similar to that of Rudy Guede, suggesting they were both there at the time Meredith was killed. That still doesn't mean she participated in the murder. But is it possible she was actually there and knows more than she let on.

I thought the bloody footprint was originally thought to have been RS's but was later found to be RG's. As far as I know AK's DNA was found in the bathroom, which you would expect. But not in the room where the murder took place.

but what does it mean, Kubrick? that amazingly she removed all her dna but noone elses? or she didnt go in her room?

I don't know. Just saying its strange that there was no DNA at all, if they were friends she probably would have done in her room, had contact with her etc

I'm just saying I find that odd personally.

But who cares what I or anyone thinks. None of us are physically involved in the case so producing theories and accosting blame is all irrelevant and pointless.

they had only been there a few weeks though, guess it could just mean meredith cleaned up regularly and amanda hadnt been in there recently

tbh i dont see what else it can mean as it is just not possible to remove only one set of dna

I'm not sure if it was stated that Amanda's DNA was nowhere at all - the DNA queries focused on specific items eg the bra clasp and MK's body, didn't they? Rather than, say, on the door or something.

When I flat shared, I almost never went into my flatmates' rooms, we hung out in the lounge.

None of us are physically involved in the case so producing theories and accosting blame is all irrelevant and pointless.

It's interesting you say that. The Kercher's are, and have seen all the evidence and they seem convinced of AK and RS's involvement. I would have thought that if there was really no incriminating that they would be satisfied with RG being convicted for it - then they have closure rather than this very prolonged 'journey' (as they called it) for the truth of what happened which makes it very difficult for them to draw a line under and move forward.

Thanks phr by the way for the alternative explanation behind the injuries and lack of defensive wounds found.

Thanks snowqueen, I am now attempting to read through the Massei report. There's a lot of it I may have to give up work. And family.
Am I right in thinking you believe AK and RS are innocent? I do want to hear biased opinions :o I just needed a pointer to unbiased material as well.