Yes, I know I am... People who tutor their DCs within an inch of their lives and then boast about their achievements

[lilolilmanchester]

Sorry, it does my head in

I'm not saying that some schools are not better than others, just that I don't believe that all outstanding schools produce children that are brighter than all satisfactory.

Off course they're not going to achieve brighter children,no school could.But they are very likely to produce higher Sats results which will in turn result in kids in higher groups in secondary for those schools that use the results to group.

That's what I'm saying is wrong. Year 7 is usually non-set and sets aren't done until year 8. So, that's got sweet FA to do with SATs.

it depends on the school. But secondaries are tuned into the relative sats results to ability they get from feeders. SATs are a load of bollocks, end of imo.

I also wonder how anyone before ofsted managed to get decent gcses/ a levels/ go onto uni. .

What about private schooled children who go to state primaries? They won't have SAT results!

We set using SATS which is then reviewed. Of course for a child to move up, one has to move down , so a child has more chance of getting into the top set if they start there.

Going to a genuinely outstanding primary will put you at an advantage not just because of SATS but also behaviour.

So what about children who haven't done SATS?

We don't get that many children from private schools , they would be much more likely to use the grammar.

If we did - and they didn't do SATS we would ask the school what they think - which is what we do with our local primary schools in addition to SATS data .

Makes you wonder what your daughters' teachers are doing all day if they manage to make so little difference.

And surely those tutored in their sats are fairly likely to be the ones who move down.

Its all so misguided, success in life or lack of it is only partly down to exam results. It also about physical and mental wellbeing, self confidence, determination, social skills, emotional intelligence, knowing your own strengths.

I ended up in set 3 out of 6 for science at school because I didn't do terribly well in my 3rd year test. I never moved up but got AA for double science (before A*s were invented). Why are sets so important? Surely good schools are meant to differentiate anyway? All this 'outstanding school' stuff, what you mean is 'outstanding in the opinion of OFSTED.

Thamkfully most people are more sensible.

Indeed, Philoslothy. :(

We used a tutor because neither DH or I wanted to be bothered to tutor her ourselves (neither of us are remotely patient enough). But, if we couldn't have afforded a tutor, I would have damn well rolled my sleeves up and tutored her myself

this is what I don't get LaQueen, all the information is there, as you say, for everyone^ we can all get it and tutor ourselves.

I am hoping my DD's will go to grammer school they are in year 1, I am in no way pushing them at all, I was never a mother who said about the pencil grip when they were one or anything, I have lightly tried them reading, but never ever pushed because I have faith they will come to things in the right time.

However, I do keep an eye on what they are supposed to be learning, I do take them to lots of hopefully interesting things to spark interest in history and so on, I have provided them with an extensive library on books, and I will try and make sure they understand and keep up with their homework and over the course of 8 months they have learned their 5, 11, 10, 3 and 2 times tables...

We will not I expect ever be able to afford a tutor for them, and when the times come I will get every bit of info on the 11 plus I can and tutor them myself!

If they dont get in,, but gave it their best shot I wont blame the system or myself or anyone!

laqueen also bow down to your other posts. Amazing.

BTW I scraped into a Grammer school, after interview with the head.

Sadly I was un able to commit myself to the a level work I was an emotional wreck at the time. However with little work I was getting c's against people who were working hard for that c. I found the pace very fast and high and the quality of teaching was astounding, I wish I had gone there from 11. It was an exciting place to be.

However as I was unable to concentrate you could say I was also one of these people who should not have been there but for me, it raised me, not enough to get good grades, due to personal issues but it still dragged me further than I would have gone anywhere else, and for me, enabled me to at least get something for my a levels, get to uni but also my personal development and so on.

Exactly and even before that, whilst they are 6 I will be educating myself about what they should be learning, and keeping my eye on their work and hoping very much to expand their knowledge as much as I can.

I do not trust their school at all, to get them ready for the 11 plus, I will not put their future solely in the schools hand and yet its a good primary school.

Too much victim mentality around. Some children are dis advantaged before they leave home and get to the school gates and its nothing to do with parents who don't care about their dc's education but those who believe they have already lost out before they have even tried.

I can afford a tutor , we could afford private school fees if we wanted to . It is not about me beating my chest and bleating . My children have enough homework , I don't want them being tutored as well - this would eat into time for this hobbies and our family time.

If our grammar schools were any good it would concern me that they were full of sharp elbowed middle class types . Instead we have mediocre grammar schools and dire secondary moderns - seems to me that in our area everyone is loosing out.

But it is unfair. I come from a family which does not care for education, it just gets in the way of earning money and putting dinner on the table.

I would not have made it into a grammar - as they are today. My parents could not have afforded a tutor and they barely gave me time to do homework - certainly not to tutor myself and they would never have tutored me. I was not a genius who would get in without a tutor . Even if I had gained a place they would not have paid my bus fare , paid for the expensive uniform and extras.

However I went from a comprehensive to one of the top universities in the world . From that moment,the world was my oyster and my future children were almost guaranteed a life very different from mine . The comprehensive system created real social mobility. That would not have happened if I had attended a secondary modern .

It is unfair.true
And that is a shame because it adds yet another tier of inequalityin education and life chances.
But if everyone else is doing it and you can afford it then there's not much option but to do likewise.

I know someone who has made her kids since the age of 5 do a minimum of 30 mins of extra work from Lett type books a day. Never a day off. On top of homework, etc which is intensively managed.

Both kids now at secondary school with full blown eating disorders and look miserable as sin. Maybe a coincidence but they look like stressed, unhappy kids.