Yes, I know I am... People who tutor their DCs within an inch of their lives and then boast about their achievements

[lilolilmanchester]

Sorry, it does my head in

[Retropear]

Grumpy do people really do that?

There isn't enough 11+ content to do that surely,what on earth are they doing?

Even my dc from the school they're at wouldn't need to do all that.

[whatever5]

I don't consider tutored kids miserable however I do consider over tutored kids miserable and feel sorry for them. By over tutored I mean several hours a day 7 days a week, including holidays and I mean 8-12 hrs on non-school days. Some parents do over tutor.

There may be one or two nutter parents doing that kind of thing but do you seriously believe it is common? I live in a grammar school area and dd goes to a grammar school. The vast majority just go to a tutor for an hour a week (usually starting in year 5 although sometimes in year 4) plus a bit of homework.

[larrygrylls]

The underlying problem is that a lot of middle class parents have a scary degree of emotional overinvestment in their children's education. The UCAS threads on here typify their overidentification with their children, with parents anxiously awaiting the postman. It is not their UCAS, FFS!

I think that parents should attempt to give their children the tools, both intellectual and emotional, in order to attain their potential. Occasionally, it might make sense to get a tutor for a specific subject if there is a problem with it or the teacher. On the other hand, you will not motivate children to love education by pushing and tutoring them, even if they get all A*s.

I really don't remember it when I was growing up. Of course, my parents were pleased when I got to Cambridge. I think I was even taken out to the local Chinese to celebrate. On the other hand, I don't think they every saw my UCCA form (as was then) or took any interest in my interview, except for being a reluctant chauffeur. And, I was very pleased that was how it was. It was my achievement, not theirs. I am sure teenagers must feel stifled by the parental involvement.

[ArgumentsatChristmas]

These people who tutor their children to within an inch of their lives - if indeed they exist - I would like to know how they do it? How do you get the children to be compliant? Beat them regularly, or what? I am genuinely interested. I'd like to tutor mine to within an inch of their lives but they won't let me ....

[Owllady]

I think it depends where you live tbh
I have met the incredibly insecure boastful parents too
I find it less mind numbingly boring living in a non selective area, but you still the teeth suckers who seem to think their children are brighter than everyone elses
All children deserve the chance to reach their full potential. When obstacles like having tutoring to pass the 11+ come into play, of course it creates a divide between those that can pay and those that can't and defeats the point of why grammars exist in the first place. Unfortunately I know a lot of children who have struggled and have had to leave grammar school too. The children I know of, it affected their confidence enormously, which I think is a real shame

[Owllady]

I agree with that Larry

[grumpyoldbat]

Sadly yes retro some do. When my dn was preparing for the 11+ the next door neighbour was horrified at "how little" preparation she was doing. The neighbour was one of those parents. Her dd looked miserable. She seemed a clever girl, I'm sure she'd still have succeeded with a more balanced preparation and I'm sure she'd have been happier with it.
I would never have believed it if I hadn't witnessed the conversation myself.

[Retropear]

Arg I agree.There are seriously that many compliant kids?Just how ?

Even my driven swot would tell me to do one if I tried to enforce that kind of regime.

[grumpyoldbat]

I don't know how they do it, my dd wouldn't comply with that either. The girl I met who was subjected to that was very subdued and withdrawn but I don't actually know her very well. My brother and sister and law have moved now too so don't see her R. I sometimes wonder how she is.

[Philoslothy]

I'm fed up of hearing my Oxbridge-educated friend, who has plenty of hours to spend with her dd each week to supervise homework and revision that her dd has passed the 11+ with "no tutor".
This would be a fair criticism of me tbh. Whilst on MN I seem quite laizzaire faire, in real life I am known as something of a pushy tiger mother . DH roared earlier at me being like Enid Blyton.

I get home too late to deal with much hwk when they are in primary . But we have a study/ library for the older children once they ready secondary. They each have their own desk and the older ones have their own study timetable . DD2 is only year 7 so she just works through he planner . They know to empty their school bags and I inspect planners and exercise books each night. They have weekly or fortnightly targets. At the moment as well as homework the older ones are doing an hour of revision each night .

I am heavily invested in my children's education , possibly overly so. Like LaQueen I want to ensure that they do well , I just go about it in a different way.

I have no issue with gelp

[Philoslothy]

Sorry pressed post too early. I have no issue with helping with homework . I do feel very uncomfortable with tutoring for an exam because I could artificially boost my child's score and they could gain a place that another child should have , possibly a child who needs it more.

Being on the edge of a grammar area I know quite a few children who are tutored , round here it seems to be for a few hours a week - not just one. Tutoring also goes on for a few years not just in the run up to the exam.

I also know quite a few parents who think their children are much brighter than they actually are and heavily tutor to mantain this perception. Although I then wonder why they feel the need to tutor if the child is so bright.

[QueenQuinine]

"I then wonder why they feel the need to tutor if the child is so bright."

It's an arms race. If all the quite-bright kids are being tutored, the only way the very-bright kid can stand out as they would normally is if they are also tutored.

The whole thing is a zero sum game. If no parents tutored, they could all keep the money they spend to spend on, oh I dunno, a nice little holiday - and the test results would show the relative 'cleverness' of the kids - which is exactly what the test results will show if all parents tutor their kids, it just means that the parents spend more money. Because some parents tutor I guess they all have to (funds permitting) otherwise their child would suffer.

It's best for all if no tutoring takes place. Apart from for the tutors. But if no-one uses tutors there is a huge advantage in being the one parent that does - but once one does, it is inevitable they all will.

Let kids be kids. It makes no difference to results.

[Philoslothy]

I know how it works, I just don't want to be part of it.

If I was going to pay to help my child get into a school I would just go privately , at least then I would not be taking the place of a child who would need it more .

[Philoslothy]

Here parents tutor not just to get into the grammar but also to get into the top set of the secondary . As far as I know DD2 was the only level 6 student who was not tutored in her primary school class. She was also the only level 5/6 student who didn't go to boosters .

I have not done her a disservice , if anything I have done her a favour because she knows she is one of a small number in her class to arrive with a level 6 with no tutoring. Now it might be that the help we have given her at home was equal to tutoring . However I have on my hands a 12 year old girl oosing self assurance because she feels that rather than being in top set because her tutor was great , she is there because she is clever.

[candycoatedwaterdrops]

"I then wonder why they feel the need to tutor if the child is so bright."

You're tutoring them to be able to answer the questions properly and pass exams. I was tutored for Maths GCSE and the tutor (very handsome he was ;)) said that he is only teaching me how to pass Edexcel questions, not holistic Maths skills.

[IDugUpADiamond]

If I was going to pay to help my child get into a school I would just go privately , at least then I would not be taking the place of a child who would need it more

UnderlPhiloslothy sorry but that just doesn't ring true at all. You can't even compare the cost of a tutor with the cost of private education. Also, I very much doubt you wouldn't choose what's best for your kid in case somebody else needed it more.

Now it might be that the help we have given her at home was equal to tutoring

There you have it. That's precisely IT. The only difference between you and parents who get a tutor for their kids is that you have the time and the confidence to tutor your own child. Many parents lack either or both.

[whatever5]

Now it might be that the help we have given her at home was equal to tutoring . However I have on my hands a 12 year old girl oosing self assurance because she feels that rather than being in top set because her tutor was great , she is there because she is clever.

I am sure that the help you gave her was equivalent to a tutor. Really the only difference between your daughter and the children who were tutored is that your daughter now thinks she is cleverer than them.

[Philoslothy]

But we are not tutoring her to get into a school that she would not get into otherwise. We just make sure that she understands her homework and is organised .

[whatever5]

But we are not tutoring her to get into a school that she would not get into otherwise. We just make sure that she understands her homework and is organised .

The majority of parents who send the children to a tutor before the 11+ do so just to level the playing field. Their child won't be at an unfair advantage if everyone else is doing the same thing.

[Philoslothy]

•idugupadiamond• according to the grammar school supporters that is what I have done because we chose not to enter her for the grammar because it is an unfair system .

Round here tutors are between £25-£30 an hour with parents doing around 3 hours a week - sometimes more. I am vulgar enough to admit that money isn't really an issue so rather than spend a few hundred a month on tuition that may or may not work I would just spend a grand or so on school fees. I might possibly save money on extra curricular activities too.

[candycoatedwaterdrops]

I do love people telling themselves that the children who are more clever or 'as clever' as theirs are only because all the other children were hot housed.

[Philoslothy]

If you read back I am not claiming that she is a genius or cleverer than all children . She is good at maths . She is quite good at science and distinctly average at English.