To wonder if the class system is relevant at my age?

[scantilymad]

The words we choose to say;
The schools we send our children to;
The places we shop;
Where we go on holiday;
The clothes we wear....

There seems to be an endless list of things that people secretly (or not so secretly) judge each other on.

I've just turned 30 and am genuinely intrigued. Does any of that really show what 'class' you might belong to? Why is lower middle looked down on? Do the upper classes care about all these rules?

I can't think of any of my peer group who would define themselves as a 'class'. We are just concerned with doing the best we can in all walks of life.

Is class even relevant anymore?

You could I suppose argue that the educated rich are a whole class to themselves.

But I wonder if you would still say money mattered if you were comparing a vicar to a footballer?

I don't think it is projection.

If you didn't go to university and you feel pretty ok about it - fine. But if someone had said that 'girls like you' don't go to university, you might feel a bit differently. Or if all your mates thought you were stuck up for wanting to go. Maybe? I dunno.

I think people who say they don't see class, are those lucky enough not to have been affected by it.

I'm 22, class isn't something I dwell on much although I am very aware of my own "class". I'm working class (not even quite "lower middle" and say "pardon" instead of "excuse me" and "shitter" instead of "lavatory" ) and have worked with some real snobs over the last few years. The way that they spoke to me, things they said, etc. was an eye opener. Class seems to matter to a lot of people so I will proudly call myself working class regardless of what my future may hold!

I think a previous poster had a point with the difference between snobbery/class.

There was a real mixture of girls in my school. All from different backgrounds. Some went to Uni, some didn't. But there was no judgment either way.

I think what I'm trying to say is that things feel more 'fluid'. You might be related to a Lord, live in a HA house but drive a BMW and speak with a "Del boy" accent! Ok, extreme example but what class is that?!

This is from a few years ago, and if you have issues with class being seen in economic terms (though I don't really get how it can be understood entirely without that) you won't find it that helpful, but here: www.theguardian.com/society/2009/jul/03/life-expectancy-patterns

Cross post.

I think there have always been individuals who don't fit neatly into a particular class. Class describes the group, it's a best fit.

I agree, Greenie. Also, I'm always a bit at the number of mumsnetters who don't see class, when so much of the chat here seems to consist of subtle (and not so subtle) displays of middle class signifiers. Particularly around food, education, "gifted" children etc.

People with working class accents and who use "common" words, are still denied jobs in companies/professions with mainly upper middle class people in it.

Be a poor working class person who is seen by many as "common" and try to talk to various officials, then be a middle class person and try and do the same. In many cases, you will get a different response.

If you are middle class, it is easy not to see class or deny its significance. That is because you are not negatively impacted by it.

You can calculate you class here (bbc style)

Maybe I would have felt it Grennie, if I'd gone to Oxbridge. Maybe I'd feel it I wandered round Kensington or Chelsea. We parked our aged ford Ka in a street in Hale, Cheshire once and people looked at us in a horrified fashion. We just laughed. But that was about money, not class. A boy at university once did ask if I'd ever been to boarding school and I was a bit nonplussed. But I don't ever remember being bothered by it. Maybe it's a sign I should get out of my comfort zone more often.

Class shouldn't matter but it does. It matters because people use it to destroy others, to exclude them and hold them back. I am underclass scum and it's been made very clear to me what others think of me and it's not nice at all. It's extended to my employability with automatic rejection for a job application due to my post code.

My Gran used to say that those with true class don't feel the need to broadcast their status and I think that's true of large sector the aristocracy, particularly the older generation.

It has mostly been the powerful upper middle class people (not all of them just the insecure ones) that have made me feel like shit, cry and even cut myself in punishment for not being good enough.

It's not projection when you get told you didn't get the job because you're too middle-class.

"I think people who say they don't see class, are those lucky enough not to have been affected by it."

I agree with what Grennie says.

If you are middle class, it is easy not to see class or deny its significance. That is because you are not negatively impacted by it. well put, grennie

Though I'd agree with the accent thing.

It is also to do with happening to meet people who are thoughtless and/or nasty though, hester.

I think some of it is very subtle, too.

Worra - my Dad worked in a factory and both sides of family from farming stock

Which is totally different to your contemporaries being happy for a farm hand to marry their offspring.

Of course they might be delighted, but often it's not something that raises its ugly head until the time comes IYSWIM.

I'd agree with the PP that what you are talking about is snobbery, not class. My neighbour is ridiculously obsessed with new cars, having the latest model of car, which supermarket you go to etc etc. He has not one ounce of 'class'.

OTOH I know many university profs who drive old bangers because their car is unimportant to them, shop in Aldi, don't worry about designer brands etc.

Class is not about outward trappings, those are details.

Maybe that's true. Maybe I'm just lucky/naive and haven't met people like that! Perhaps being self employed helps a lot.

The being rejected for a job based on your postcode is outrageous. Perhaps it shouldn't be necessary to put addresses on FFs.

dashoflime - I agree. MNers are always complaining about another child, parent or nursery worker who is too "common" to mix with their child.

Some MNers complain about such things. But they are generally flamed.

Magrat - And I know people who look down on others who are poorer than them because they do care what car they drive, etc.

It's posts like Grumpy's that really triggered the question. Perhaps my OP should have been WHY does class matter
not DOES it matter?
Why should people be made to cry/feel like shit over things they have no control over? Why isn't decency and hardwork seen as "good class?"
If I'm having a severe case of the Marie Antoinettes then please say!

Grennie, kind of inverse snobbery, you mean? Yes, that happens, but I don't think it denotes class.

People form assumptions based on these things, though - sure, overtly making judgements based on them is snobbery. But plenty of well-meaning people who wouldn't dream of saying 'that is a common accent' will find themselves making assumptions.