To want to offer up to all the fat shamers...

[WichitaLineman]

... On mumsnet who peddle the old "fat people are lazy and lack will -power" or proffer their simplistic formula of "eat less, move more" an incredibly succinct description of food addiction by Marcus Brigstocke. I will admit that that sentence isn't quite so succinct

"Eating is different [from drug addiction]; it's dirty, it's horrible - you do it on your own and you wear it. [With] alcohol and drugs, you have moments of sobriety, [but] you don't stop being fat. You wear it; everyone can see it - it is a brand… an overcoat of shame for everyone to see.

"You despise yourself, you make promises to yourself, you say 'I had a bad day, that was bad but that means this is baseline and I can start', then you go and break those promises and do it again, and worse.

"Eating disorders are more pervasive and subtle [than alcohol and drugs] and availability and acceptability are much higher... the ”high“ comes from the totally full-up feeling ”It is an anaesthetic. You lie like a python digesting what you have, it slows your brain down and you are physically inert. Numb and dull, that is the feeling you get."

Whilst I am not saying that every obese person is a compulsive overeater, I wold wager that most are, including myself. This has resonated with me and is the best description I have read of the self-loathing involved in compulsive overeating. It is a faulty mechanism to deal with emotional pain and the fat shamers can't cause any more shame than we already feel for ourselves.

Whilst there are many people on mn who are understanding, I am always appalled by those who aren't. Please think on this when those threads come up. Thank you.

Is it Caitlin Moran who said that food is the woman's / carer's addiction because it doesn't affect your ability to look after your dependents like booze, drugs or gambling?

I think there is a gender divide here. Brigstocke is a counterexample that there are men who are fat due to food addiction and of course there are women who have become very obese just because they like chips more than they like being thin and they have eaten 50 surplus calories every day over a period of thirty years. But it's more normally the other way around. I know a few men who have gone from obese to ideal weight just by doing the bleeding obvious, ditching the chocolates and beer, eating less and moving more and I can think of a few male public figures who've done the same. I can't think of any women who've managed that. (I do know one man who is morbidly obese due to psychological problems).

Partly perhaps because the pressure to be thin is so strong for women that very few would choose chips and social ostracism without some underlying issue, whereas for a man the stakes are so much lower that they do get fat merely because they like beer and chips, and hence a stern talking to by their GP may be enough to make them change their mind.

Witchita there is an element of self-selection bias however. This is a thread about problematic overeating due to underlying issues, therefore more people who have those issues will post than those who don't.

People should never insult people and "fat shaming" in that sense is never acceptable, but people who post politely and with good intentions about calorie intake vs expenditure should not be vilified in turn. We all occasionally get 'advice' that makes us clench our teeth, but for some it may help.

But it is very very hard to admit to such self-destructive behaviour. My husband knows I am fat. He knows I have issues with food. And yet I would be so ashamed and mortified to show him this thread.

So to extrapolate from that I think you would find that people would prefer others to think them greedy than admit to the real cause. The despair, the stealing, the lying...

I don't think some of you have a clue about what is going on in the fat person in your office, or the morbidly obese person on the street's head.

I would prefer to admit to having an affair than to having this compulsion.

Wichita
Your compulsion is the same as that of any addict.

One of my clients is an alcoholic. He has destroyed his family in the past, pulled it together for a few years and is currently in the middle of another self destructive spiral.
Losing his driving licence has made him worse as he has no reason to sober up enough to drive.
The sooner he gets in a fight and gets put in prison (yet again) the sooner he'll sober up for a few more years.
But the demons in his head will always be there no matter how he appears on a good day.

Exactly. Rock bottoms and all that

itsatiarra I agree with everythign you said.

I completely understand people being obese. Fat shaming on the other hand? Why would you want to do that? At least you can change your weight easier than your entire bloody personality that makes you want to shame someone.

For one thing, with modern lifestyles and the availability of convenient, high-calorie food it's a lot easier to be overweight than slim.

I think at last I might have knocked comfort eating on the head. But I totally get the food-tastes-nice-and-makes-me-feel-warm-and-loved. I started at 16 when I got called fat (I was barely overweight, 11 and a half stone and 5'7") and it just made me eat more, and have done it off and on ever since.

I also get the "I hate myself so I'll eat to excess" thing as a form of self-harm. I have bordered on that at times of stress. The only thing that has stopped me from being very overweight is discovering that exercise was actually rather important to me and enjoyable, and I feel much better when I do it than when I don't.

I don't think some of you have a clue about what is going on in the fat person in your office, or the morbidly obese person on the street's head.

No-one knows what's going on in anyone's head to be fair.

People are overweight/obese for a whole multitude of personal reasons.

yanbu - and the difference to other addictions is that you can cut out old drinking/drug friends etc you can't escape food - you still have to eat - and every occasion involves food!

in my case it is a health issue that makes my fight against fat v hard but those looking at me and thinking Fat/lazy don't know this.

Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean. And to be fair a lot of people who do not have weight problems spend an inordinate amount of time speculating about what is inside obese people's heads. There is a whole dieting industry exploiting it.

I am offering an alternative perspective from someone who has shared innermost thoughts with many obese people.

"Eating is different [from drug addiction]; it's dirty, it's horrible - you do it on your own and you wear it. [With] alcohol and drugs, you have moments of sobriety, [but] you don't stop being fat. You wear it; everyone can see it - it is a brand… an overcoat of shame for everyone to see.

That right there is why I struggle with weight loss so much and why I always feel I have to explain away my weight. I could live on salads, grilled chicken and brown rice for a month but I wouldn't suddenly be a size 10. No matter how good a day you have had you are still fat at the end of the day.

I have been overweight all my life and Obese for most of my 20's. My Mum used to just tell me to lose weight, pretty hard when she was doing my cooking and she had no advice for me at all. She is a complete fattist. She makes remarks on everybodies weight, usually as an opening line.

I have lost around 3 stone since dd3 was born 3 years ago. I know that is a great achievement for me but I am still fat and people see that and judge me, including mum. When I have reached a new milestone and tell her she always adds 'but you still have a lot to lose'
Well no shit! Yes I do, I know that but I need encouragement and recognition to keep me going

YY, it can take a bloody long time to lose even a few pounds. Then you have a bad week and there they are again.

Debs, it's horrible to have an unsupportive parent. It sounds like she has some issues herself. KBO (Keep Buggering On) xx

Only read a few responses so not sure if it has been mentioned yet but the thing that I remember most when remembering this (I am pretty overweight myself) is that at least when you are addicted to drugs, alcohol, porn, gambling you can live without it. But the worst addiction is being addicted to something you need to survive and that is so true.

'judgemental about underweight women in exactly the same way that they are about overweight women.'

thats not true , society in general is much kinder to underweight women.

I'm not being pedantic at all.

You've said a couple of times that you'd be willing to bet most obese people are compulsive over eaters.

But then you quite rightly went on to point out that you don't know what goes in in their heads.

There have been many posts on MN over the years from people saying they're overweight/obese because they enjoy all the wrong foods and don't exercise.

There have also been many posts from overweight/obese people saying that just like you, they are compulsive over eaters.

I guess what I'm saying is, everyone has their own individual story.

Yes, I hate those things that pop up on Facebook about Marilyn Monroe being so much more attractive to men than some stick thin model. Just swapping one ideal body for another which may be equally unachieveable, and saying you are only a valid person if sexually attractive to men.

Also I was cheered by the "Strong is the new thin" message at first, as I have always been a bit muscly. And yes, exercise and having a strong body are a very good idea for health reasons. But again, it is just swapping one body fascism for another.

But worra, as I have said, with all the shame surrounding compulsive overeating many people would rather claim greed and enjoyment of food is the cause of their obesity than a compulsion. I have and continue to do this.

I have had years of therapy and have spoken to hundreds of people about this and it is so much more prevalent than I think you realise.

I agree that it is wrong to judge anyone on their weight, but we are being disingenuous if we pretend that morbidly obese people and underweight people suffer the same censure from society. The stereotypes of fat people are that they are lacking control, greedy and lazy. They tend to be that a thin person has an iron will and is a bit neurotic. Not the same.

I wouldn't dream of making a remark about anyone's weight however.

I read last week that woman who were sexually abused when young are more than twice as likely to binge eat. That made me think that the fat shamers should hang their ignorant heads.

Also, note how many made-for-tv true movies there are about anorexia, drug addiction - even sex addiction. Any about compulsive overeating? Not very glamorous, eh?

Do anorexics get abuse shouted at them in the street? Not nearly as much as obese people. Just go back and read GwendolineMary's post. Let's be honest about this and then perhaps we can start to lose the stigma surrounding it and genuinely reach out to help with the issues.

My DH is obese and on a constant diet. If you met him you would probably think he was poorly educated about diet and nutrition because he seems to abdicate all responsibility for eating 'properly'. But when you get to know him you realise he is 'ignorant' because he is addicted and ashamed but pleading ignorance seems like the more socially acceptable option.

As worra has said for the individual though, is there much comfort to be had that the Hollywood ideal is a size x when they have snipey comments made about them.

I think the greater issue is that people feel it appropriate or right to negatively comment on someone's size.

There is a world of difference between offering someone well intentioned advice and shouting out insults to a random on the street.

I have enormous sympathy for those who are obese and do not want to be. However like any addict it ultimately comes down to choice. Whether that choice is simple or not is irrelevant.
I spent 14 years as a bulimic. Making myself sick up to 10 times per day and spending a fortune on food to binge on. I made myself pretty ill. After a lot of searching I realised the only person that could change things was me. It took me a long time to change my behaviours and I occasionally relapse but not for long. If you don't want to be fat you do have a choice and like most things it is a long, hard road but ultimately only you can change it.
Also for those comparing anorexia and overeating. They are not the same thing, they are opposite. They might stem from the same cause but it is really hard to be anorexic (i tried and failed a number of times) whereas it is not difficult to over eat.

I have been both. I have weighed 20 stone and 6 3/4 stone. The addictive process is the same. They are opposite sides of the same coin and no it is not easy to overeat and difficult to undereat. By saying that you are fat shaming yet again. stupid over eaters taking the easy road.

A perfect example of how hard it is to change people's entrenched prejudices towards compulsive overeating.

Yes, ultimately only you can decide to get well, but often we are not master of our own destiny and are chained to this repulsive, addictive damaging behaviour.

As I say, I have had 20 years of various treatment and have read endless research/ been treated by the most eminent in the business.