To want to offer up to all the fat shamers...

[WichitaLineman]

... On mumsnet who peddle the old "fat people are lazy and lack will -power" or proffer their simplistic formula of "eat less, move more" an incredibly succinct description of food addiction by Marcus Brigstocke. I will admit that that sentence isn't quite so succinct

"Eating is different [from drug addiction]; it's dirty, it's horrible - you do it on your own and you wear it. [With] alcohol and drugs, you have moments of sobriety, [but] you don't stop being fat. You wear it; everyone can see it - it is a brand… an overcoat of shame for everyone to see.

"You despise yourself, you make promises to yourself, you say 'I had a bad day, that was bad but that means this is baseline and I can start', then you go and break those promises and do it again, and worse.

"Eating disorders are more pervasive and subtle [than alcohol and drugs] and availability and acceptability are much higher... the ”high“ comes from the totally full-up feeling ”It is an anaesthetic. You lie like a python digesting what you have, it slows your brain down and you are physically inert. Numb and dull, that is the feeling you get."

Whilst I am not saying that every obese person is a compulsive overeater, I wold wager that most are, including myself. This has resonated with me and is the best description I have read of the self-loathing involved in compulsive overeating. It is a faulty mechanism to deal with emotional pain and the fat shamers can't cause any more shame than we already feel for ourselves.

Whilst there are many people on mn who are understanding, I am always appalled by those who aren't. Please think on this when those threads come up. Thank you.

Do people really think that just because something is posted in AIBU that that means anything goes, no matter the subject matter - oh well.

OP - this thread was very educational and very heartfelt, I think it probably did more good than harm.

Everlong, like I say, I have been an active poster on mn for over 8 years. I know what aibu is.

Wichita if I have offended you with my views, I am sorry. They are based on my personal experience of 37 miserable years if dieting. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the views raised on this thread including those I may not have agreed with or had experience with.

Yes, posting on AIBU was perhaps unwise as posters tend to post their opinions, even if they do not agree with the original poster. However I am grateful that you did post, OP, and please do not take any posts personally that you disagreed with. We are all on the same side here, with valuable experiences of obesity, dieting , ED, and all trying to find the answers for ourselves.

No ones body is disgusting. Hating your body helps no one! If people look at you with disgust honestly they are very sad people, someone obsessed with appearances cannot be happy.

I see FAR more skinny-shaming and fit-shaming these days, that isn't acceptable either but many people seem to think that it's fine.

Everlong so you accept that socialisation makes us want to thin but you still fat shame..

Thanks so much for this.
I am overweight (not obese, just) because I promised my partner I wouldn't be bulimic anymore soon after we got together (I had been between the ages of 12 - 22 both anorexic and bulmimic, sometimes together so never eating and when I did throwing it up or exercising furiously until I nearly or did pass out). I put on 2 1/2 stone because I still did the 'binge' bit, just not the 'unhealthy purge' bit. He is lovely and genuinely doesn't notice I don't think (apart from the fact I'm now a 36H instead of a 34F.. in fact my hourglass shape is the main reason no one ever noticed how little I ate) but I struggle to not get even bigger and feel miserable about how I look all the time.
I know it's healthier for me, I do, I was starting to lose enamel on my teeth and have given myself really bad IBS and acid reflux problems, but I still comfort eat now and again, and do feel like I 'wear' it. That everyone can see I have no will power and how the fat goes straight to my face etc.
I think I will copy and paste your post OP, and remind myself that I am not weak/disgusting, but instead have actually gotten half way to 'beating' my eating disorder.

Oh higgle do go away. I think we have established that, whether on aibu or not, this thread should now be supportive (or dead and an eating disorders topic would be even better).

Calling obesity revolting is not achieving anything other than fat shaming. It is usually not their fault. So perhaps a little compassion rather than abuse? Or even better, just stop commenting on this thread.

Higgle, if people wanted to change the MN diet pages would be full of these posters, theyre not. What does that tell you?

higgle My DM currently has black lumps appearing all over her body due to malignant melanoma. No doubt you would feel equally comfortable describing her appearance as "utterly revolting"?

Guisha, it tells you that dieting doesn't work

I'm fine thank you very much.

Ice, I am so sorry about your dm

Icebeing, I'm sorry about your mother too. My care service cares for many people with serious conditions and we always treat people with respect and compassion.

AIBU invites one of two responses, "Yes" + reason or "no" + reason.

On Supersize v. Superskinny The format is that the supersized person, who has signed up for the show seems always to be taken to the US to be shocked into changing their ways. They tend to meet a lovely person who is obviously suffering terrible health and mobility problems as a result of being extremely obese, often on oxygen etc. and their universal response 9 or the response we are shown) is that they throw their hands up in horror and say they don't want to be like that. I have enormous reservations about the use of the US participants in this way. They either say "don't end up like me" or are BB people who think they look good at 50 stone or so, some of them want to be bigger.

I suppose the point - and here the analogy with someone who is unwell is appropriate - is that at some point this is just an illness and one would may not feel any different about the physical shape the person is in than someone with a different illness. But, the UK person does seem shocked, and as they themselves are very overweight is this in itself a form of fatshaming?

The one thing I really like about this programme is that the two participants are usually very kind and supportive to each other despite being at the opposite ends of the weight spectrum, the more general ethics sometimes seem a bit dubious. I'd be interested to know how they are all doing say 18 months afterwards.

witcha sorry - I shouldn't have put any of this in your thread....it was just the example that popped into my head of how inappropriate people find it to speak of the results of disease as disgusting unless it happens to be obesity.

If higgle will retract the horrible post I will retract all of my responses too.

Please don't ice - you make some brilliant points very articulately reasoned. I genuinely am so very sorry about your dm .

Let's move the analogy into something less contentious.

I don't watch TV all the time but something else I happened across this week was about the eradication of smallpox. No one has smallpox now, so hopefully not a subject anyone can get upset about. I'd never seen a photograph/film of someone with smallpox before, there was lots of footage of people with smallpox, and I think about 1/3 of them died ( which I didn't know) To see the poor people covered, absolutely covered with big lumpy sores brought about strong feelings of pity and strong feelings of revulsion about what it had done to them. I don't mean revulsion with how it left them when they were recovered but the sight of the condition at its worst when active. . I think for most people this would be a gut reaction.

The point I was making - which, as ever, was ignored, is that on SSvSS
the people who have self selected as the supersize participant appear to be revolted by the USA person they go to see. Do we think this is irrelevant as it is just crap TV or do we think it does have an effect on the participants, or something else?

I think your use of wording is incredibly pejorative and nasty.

It is ethically appalling tv. As you pointed out, I am sure that any of those participants with an eating disorder revert immediately to their old behaviour - the shame is probably compounded by being seduced onto national tv and playing out your issues in public under the patronising glare of dr Christian. They are then made to view some morbidly obese Americans as if they are a circus sideshow - and presumably have to express shock - it wouldn't look great for the producers if they just shrugged their shoulders.

Anyway, my original point was not about bodies or weight. I have weighed 6 3/4 stone, 9 stone and almost 20 stone and felt the same compulsion and shame. So, like I said, many of you are missing the point. I am not looking for people to collude to keep me obese - I have never said that .

Would you look at a man who has a compulsion to dress in women's clothing revolting? Or tell them to get a grip and exercise some willpower? It's not the same but it is a compulsion...

SSvSS really is shit TV, you are right about that higgle. It's the modern day equivalent of a circus freak show and I don't understand how people can watch it with a clear conscience, it is body shaming, pure and simple, for the very overweight and underweight. As for the likes of the Biggest Loser, it's all based on "look at the state of you", bullying, shaming, scaring people into change and not usually in a healthy way (several hours full on exercise every day when you are very overweight and unfit? Seriously, how can that be a healthy approach?) I don't know many people who actually respond favourably to any of those approaches in any area of life and correct me if I'm wrong, but how many of the people on the show are revisited 2-3 years later to see how much weight they've regained?

X post Wichita

Not a good analogy for me, I very much admire Grayson Perry and think he looked fab at the palace with his family.

I've been quite careful to use respectful words about the people in the programme because they are so kind to each other and it would be quite brave for most people to stand around in their underwear on television. It is crap television and rather distasteful but the response of the participants going off to the US to meet someone who is heavier than them is not "that's cool" but one where they are sometimes quite critical of the habits of the other person.

But you find obesity utter repulsive. Nice.