To want to offer up to all the fat shamers...

[WichitaLineman]

... On mumsnet who peddle the old "fat people are lazy and lack will -power" or proffer their simplistic formula of "eat less, move more" an incredibly succinct description of food addiction by Marcus Brigstocke. I will admit that that sentence isn't quite so succinct

"Eating is different [from drug addiction]; it's dirty, it's horrible - you do it on your own and you wear it. [With] alcohol and drugs, you have moments of sobriety, [but] you don't stop being fat. You wear it; everyone can see it - it is a brand… an overcoat of shame for everyone to see.

"You despise yourself, you make promises to yourself, you say 'I had a bad day, that was bad but that means this is baseline and I can start', then you go and break those promises and do it again, and worse.

"Eating disorders are more pervasive and subtle [than alcohol and drugs] and availability and acceptability are much higher... the ”high“ comes from the totally full-up feeling ”It is an anaesthetic. You lie like a python digesting what you have, it slows your brain down and you are physically inert. Numb and dull, that is the feeling you get."

Whilst I am not saying that every obese person is a compulsive overeater, I wold wager that most are, including myself. This has resonated with me and is the best description I have read of the self-loathing involved in compulsive overeating. It is a faulty mechanism to deal with emotional pain and the fat shamers can't cause any more shame than we already feel for ourselves.

Whilst there are many people on mn who are understanding, I am always appalled by those who aren't. Please think on this when those threads come up. Thank you.

I think a lot of the difficulty is that it's actually easier for some people to stop substance abuse than it is for some people to lose fat. One can stop drinking/drug-taking one day and suddenly be a non user (although they still may be carrying health/emotional issues that have arisen from/caused the addiction, etc.), but it takes ages to not be fat anymore so one has to still deal with all the prejudices that go with that.

Actually fromparistoberlin I was addicted to food from the age of 4. Stealing biscuits and gorging until I felt sick. I was suffering from low self-esteem and ate to fill an emotional void.

Children can absolutely suffer from disordered eating.

I think my op is being derailed though. I have been and am called horrible names and kind of expect it, although it's not nice. I have also been anorexic (the two sides of the same coin thing). On the surface it would seem I exorcised extraordinary will power then - but inside I felt exactly the same lack of self-control as when I am binge eating.

I am more asking that before the usual suspects trot out nonsense about all fat people lack will-power and what an enormous drain we are on resources, they think about the alternative possibilities. That many of us suffer deep self-loathing and would do anything to lose weight, but more importantly the feelings that cause the overeating.

And by the way, the social stigma and insults of being fat were 10 times more demoralising than when I was thin and being judged for being overweight.

Just try and be kind. That's all.

underweight not overweight

All I know is, if it was as easy and straightforward as some people think it is, do those same people really think that I would rather keep eating and stay obese and have random strangers call out "fat piece of shit" as I walk past them if it was as easy as all that to change it?

Ok my opinion will not be popular and I might get flamed - but I do believe in "fat shaming"

Not shaming as in calling someone derogatory names or mocking them. But in terms of a health professional saying out and out these are the risks with the lifestyle you have chosen and what the future risks will be.

Supersize vs Superskinny - I think that illustrates the point.

I believe in empathy, but I don't believe in comforting people in denial.

(I'm referring to morbidly/obese - not just people carrying a little extra weight.)

And this is a rather ignorant thing to say, but when people binge or over/comfort eat - why not do that with healthier substitutes? I do understand that need and want to eat but you're still making the choice of what exactly it is you're putting in your body.

Exactly Gwendoline - you cannot possibly know what it is like to be passed over for promotion, jeered at in the street, lose relationships and friendships and health unless you are obese.

Nobody would choose that life.

I was just trying to offer an insight from the inside. Lots of people are empathetic, but a few posts on here have shown that some people will never, ever get it. Which is ok. I hope one or two may start to understand after some of these heartfelt brave posts by other people on here.

And by the way, the social stigma and insults of being fat were 10 times more demoralising than when I was thin and being judged for being overweight.

For you personally yes

Not necessarily for others as I think MrsDeVere is pointing out.

FFs it is not a lifestyle choice. Seriously, I won't waste any more breath on ignorance like that.

I feel pretty vulnerable explaining something that I am very very ashamed of. Yes even over the internet. And people like you choose to totally ignore what I am trying to say.

There is an obesity epidemic. People should be made aware of the health risks. I feel fucking terrible that I may cost the nhs cash because I am fat. I have been to residential treatment that involved selling a property to find to try to tackle this addiction. I see a councillor and attend over eaters anonymous. What else would you like me to try? What more evidence do you need that this is a pernicious,awful addiction?

But how do you know unless you have been obese? Genuine question?

Fabulous idea to start this thread Witchita - just blown away by that quote - thank you. Where is it from? I googled "Marcus Bridgestock food addiction" etc but too many hits come up and they seem to be from 2010?

Also I am morbidly obese and very very far from being in denial. Do you really think that most morbidly obese people don't realise they are fat? That is incredibly naive, and I wouldn't base your social commentary on a channel 4 show btw.

It's from the independent - thanks bridges.

I have been obese. For me though, it was a lifestlye choice.....I liked eating more than I liked moving, it really was as simple as that (for me).

Almost 20 years ago now though I saw the light, pulled myself out of my dark pit, joined a slimming loss club and lost the weight.

I guess we all need a light bulb moment, and mine actually happened when someone insulted me. It hurt but at the end of the day it did me a massive favour.

Sadly, no one can do it for us, we have to be accountable to ourselves.

Not shaming as in calling someone derogatory names or mocking them. But in terms of a health professional saying out and out these are the risks with the lifestyle you have chosen and what the future risks will be.

That's not fatshaming nor is it remotely what the Op is talkign about. If I go in to the doctor and say I have bad knees..and she says "well losing some weight would help, how can we work on that".

That's a medical opinion.

Some random twat on the internet saying just go on a diet,it's EASY. Is fat shaming. jeez

FFs it is not a lifestyle choice. Seriously, I won't waste any more breath on ignorance like that.

I'm not saying you specifically - but yes for some people it is a lifestyle choice.

Great thread Wichita - do you mind me asking what approaches the clinic and your counsellor are using to try and help you? Happy for a pm if you think it would derail the thread

"food addiction" only exists where there are supermarkets and salaries and benefits that provide the means to become so

changing the mindset once it is created is incredibly hard in the food centric developed world environment

nobody should be insulted to their face about their size
but they should be offered support to get their body to a healthy size - whether that involves gaining or losing weight

Does anyone really think for a minute that those of us who carry excess weight (and I'm on the plump side of normal at the moment, having lost 5 stone last year and then going back to old habits over Christmas, now frantically trying to get back on the 'right' way of eating but struggling) don't KNOW that we're overweight, and don't KNOW what we need to do to become more healthy?

Sanctimonious posts about 'move more, eat less' and 'when you want to comfort eat, do it with lettuce' are so bloody patronising - it's like people assume that overweight people never read any diet advice, that our IQs go down as our weight goes up - drives me nuts.

I read Gary Taube's 'Why We Get Fat (and what to do about it)' and that has helped me understand the biological (as opposed to emotional) compulsion to eat the wrong stuff, and in the wrong quantities, and so I've managed to get away from the guilt of 'knowing' that I was fat because I was greedy and lazy - I am neither - but I still have to walk around wearing the evidence of my 'addiction'. That's not an easy thing to do, and I ended up barely leaving the house for 4 years after regaining weight subsequent to a dramatic weight loss.

Being overweight, let alone obese, is bloody agony for a lot of people - it can be the first thought when you wake up, and your last thought before falling asleep, and every day can be filled with reminders (mirrors, shop windows, just getting dressed) of how you are a 'failure'. It's not an exaggeration to say that you think about it, and are (self) conscious of it every hour of every day - and yet people still come out with the platitudes of - 'do more exercise', 'watch your portion size', 'use smaller plates' and all that crap. Well, bugger off.

If there was an easy solution to being overweight/obese, those who suffer from it would leap at it. There isn't. Personally, once I can get through the first few days of low carbing (which depends on what else is going on in my life, crisis-wise) then I can lose weight - and other people will have found their own ways of doing it - but I have immense sympathy and empathy for those who haven't found anything that clicked and worked for them.

Not really sure why I'm posting here, or what point I'm trying to make other than asking the 'fat shamers' to please shut up, because you're not helping anyone :)

I've told this story before on here - I was nine months pregnant one winter and wrapped up in a big long coat and scarf, therefore undeniably barrel-shaped. A van zoomed past me and the driver leaned out and shouted 'fat cow'. I was horrified and shaken and horribly embarrassed. It made me wonder what it would feel like to be that size and subject to that kind of judgement, censure and abuse on a regular basis. I agree that smoking is villified and smokers disapproved of for using up NHS resources but I don't think any group comes in for such revolted contempt as overweight people.

will never forget a thread on here where the OP had gone to her first mw appt and been spoken to patronisingly and unlikely by the mw regarding her weight. A large number of posters delighted in putting the boot in, telling her that she was clearly in denial about how very fat she was. Now, she may have needed some dietary advice or monitoring as of course weight can be a risk factor in pregnancy but it was the way some people felt entitled to be blunt, offensive and cruel under the guise of being 'honest'. That kind of 'honesty' is totally counter-productive. As the OP states, weight can reflect self-hatred and to reinforce that self-hatred is less likely to shock someone into constructive action than to simply send them into a more self-destructive pattern.

I will always remember that hot tingling sense of shame I felt getting such public and humiliating abuse for my pregnant belly. If it had been fat rather than baby it would not have spurred me to healthy eating habits, it would have strengthened that cruel mocking voice in my head telling me I was worthless. That doesn't inspire people to treat themselves well - Ime I need to be in a healthy frame of mind before I can be in a healthy state of body. Being treated with respect and dignity helps people to respect themselves and live in a dignified manner. Bring scorned and reviled will do the opposite.

MN is a self selecting group of intelligent, usually quite well informed women though. I doubt there's anybody on here who thinks 'I wonder why I'm so overweight' whilst overeating.

But out there in RL there are thousands of people with not the first clue about many aspects of their health, including how to eat reasonably well. Case in point would be my BIL and his family, who think that it's ok to give my overweight niece a burger for her breakfast because they also gave her a fried egg.

Or the school kids who don't give a second thought to downing nearly 1000 calories of whipped drink heaven in Starbucks because liquid doesn't count.

Etc, etc. Ignorance rules in so many aspects of our lives. I agree that saying 'eat less, move more' to overweight women on MN is pointless, as they will almost certainly have thought much more deeply than that about their weight. But out there, obesity is just one of many serious problems we're storing up for our future and our kids future.

I'm overweight myself, doing the 5/2 just now to try to shift it. I want to be healthy.

Some fabulous, understanding posts here. Some not so much. Those about accountability are as bad as the "eat less" ones. And anyone who writes that has absolutely no fucking idea about addiction.

I have been careful not to state that every obese person suffers from food addiction, but I do believe that the majority do and are not simply "greedy" or gluttonous - or why the hell wouldn't they have just rained it in a bit?

And I have done 12 step programmes as an inpatient, as an outpatient and through oa (the most effective although brutal in terms of deconstructing the psyche), psychotherapy, cbt, slimming clubs... All self-funded. I currently have psychotherapy.

As I say, I am mortified to think that I would give the fat shamers another reason to put the boot in if I have to use the nhs and their tax dollars - hence the fact that I am trying what I possibly can.

I agree that for most people, being mocked or patronised for being fat does not help. It does not help them lose weight one bit. It reinforces negative feelings they already have.