To think scouts guides etc

[alicetrefusis]

Are bloody weird. And the adults even more so. The uniforms!I speak as an ex guide ran away- but shit all that weirdly pseudo military stuff.looked at from the outside v disturbing. Also the cannibalistic rites and torture bits of the Christian service awful. Yet look around and church full of daily nail blue rinses and young parents desperate to get em into school, scary,

Aw damn it, I missed your post as I skimmed down, pregnantberry...

My son has an amazing time at Cubs and has had loads of opportunities that he wouldn't otherwise had had. The leaders are volutneers and totally dedicated. There is very little god apart from rememberance sunday.

My (atheist) partner really loved being in the scouts when he was younger. I asked him about the ethics of promising to do his duty to god, and he said that he had no problem with that: because god doesn't exist, this duty amounted to absolutely nothing, and he was honestly swearing to do that.

OP, I'd like to invite you to my brownie unit and I'm sure the Guide Unit and Senior Section unit would love to have you visit too. We make a donation to the church once a year and often chat to the minister and he ALWAYS turns up when we're baking.

We have never been to church apart from using the church hall and we have fund. We're currently doing the Big Brownie Birthday Challenge which I'm sure you will enjoy.

Your main objection seems to be to the language of the church- body and blood of Christ and all that (although as someone pointed out protestants don't believe this literally at all).

So- don't go! Nothing compulsory about it, nothing compulsory about Guides or Scouts either.

I find it weird people go and then moan about it. You know what Christanity is about, avoid it if you don't like it!

Drspouse - I can assure you that by the time I went to Guides in the early 80's few children in the poor area I grew up in went to church regularly. The only time I went to church was with the school or Guides.

My brother went on a Scouts residential trip and refused to attend the church service on the Sunday - he hadn't known he would have to go. There were no adults to supervise him outside the church, so he was made to attend church.

Friends of mine of non christian religions were not mostly not allowed by their parents to attend Guides or Scouts. My parents were more relaxed about it.

I don't have any problems with a youth organisation havings ome religion. I don't have any problem with a youth organisation that was mainly Christian becoming more secular.

I do have a problem with those pretending that the Guides has always been pretty secular when many of us here know that simply isn't true.

The Guides became more secular because more and more children were not attending because of the Christian, and much more recently, the general God element. So it was a change.

Youth organisations like the Woodcraft Folk were established because there were no other youth organisations that were not religious. If your parents were not Christain like mine, they either had to ignore the Christian element in the Guides, or their children were not allowed to attend.

grennie if you saw my reference to Call The Midwife you'll know I was talking about the 1950s or earlier when "everyone" went to church/things were expected to be church based.

We do still have some leaders who were girls at that time, and some whose values were moulded by the prevailing values at that time (though they are a little younger, but were perhaps brought up in Guiding by leaders from that era, and assume it's supposed to be like that).

I am fully aware that the kind of thing you talk about does still go on in Guiding and Scouting. In Guiding, it is specifically disallowed, and a stiff complaint to District or County would bring down a ton of bricks. I don't know what the policy is in Scouting (but may find out in about 4 years when I say No Thank You to church parade for our Beaver-in-Waiting; we do go to church, but we go to our church).

other Leaders know, is there training on how we provide these cannibalistic rites and rituals?

Email your DC to ask? then post the reply here so we can have a good laugh

is there training on how to provide cannabalistic rites

...goes to guiding manual to check on list of approved activities....

will report back later!

You know what they say golden if it isn't in the manual someone will have written a byelaw about it it doesn't mean it's approved!

I run a Beaver group.. I am putting them on a rack later and will be making voodoo dolls..
Seriously, we don't do much religion, there is a monthly church parade but its voluntary. I am usually Mnetting (from my bed) when church parade is on. I am a shocking example of a leader

I have just looked at my 1941 copy of Scouting for Boys and I can find no reference to Cannabalism.

How to judge a character by the way they were a hat, is in there all so How to deal with a mad dog. There is also how to deal with a victm of suicide.

Very interesting reading but I am disappointed due to the lack of how to perform your own cannablistic ritual whilst dancing round a camp fire.

YABU. Raise your own children how you like. You do realise you could be a writer for the Daily Mail don't you?

Get over yourselves, scouts and guides are organisations which are run by volunteers (they start by telling you an hour a week and then laugh that it is an hour a week off) which thousands of children get massive enjoyment from. Many children who do not fit into other clubs which require one interest gain massively from scouting. Yes my husband is a scout leader and yes they are expected to goto church parade - but as most of them go to a church school this is not really an issue. Many children with sen also gain massively from scouting so don't knock it till you have tried it and don't knock something WHICH IS RUN BY VOLUNTEERS!

Many Guide and Scout groups meet in Church halls. These are often available to them free or at very cheap rates. This gives an immediate connection to the Church, but doesn't necessarily make the organisations religious. Probably in the past, these links have been stronger,with more children doing things like Church parade. Sometimes the leaders of the group go to the Church. Also doesnt make the organisation religious.

There is often still some link with the Church, many packs will have a Remembrance service, for example, which many schools also do.

However, all of these things are voluntary. There is no requirement to go to Church parade etc. Likewise there is to requirement to go to Guides or Scouts etc. if the fact that some of them might be going to Church parade is a big issue for you, (not sure why it would be, but seems to be for some people) then don't go. Shame to miss out on all the fun things though.

I really don't think Scouts and Guides are being used as a tool to evangelise children. There is a difference between being a religious organisation and having connections with the Church. Most people don't have issues with the connection, and are happy to attend, as they would a Church school. The connection between the Scouts, Guides and Church is less than it is in a Church school these days.

guidingmanual.guk.org.uk/activities/non-authorised_activities.aspx

This is the list of prohibited activities, cannabalism isn't directly mentioned!
That's next week sorted then....

Golden I'm so glad you posted that, I was hoping to include it at our next meeting too but this thread gave me pause.

I remember the best bit of guides was the campfires! As well as toasting marshmallows we found out that when you burn laurel leaves the smell makes you a bit high...

I really don't think Scouts and Guides are being used as a tool to evangelise children. There is a difference between being a religious organisation and having connections with the Church

Very good point. Fwiw I encourage my guides to come to church parade for a few reasons,

1. The elderly people in the church like to see them, and it's nice to be able to brighten up their weekend,
2. It's respectful to the church, given that we benefit hugely from the exceptionally cheap rent etc..
3. It's a good way for the girls to connect to a part of the community that they live in and they enjoy the responsibilities that come with it - flag carrying etc..

I don't give a monkeys which religion they are and I certainly don't believe church parade has ever converted anyone. Having a belief in god is not a prerequisite to attending church parade!

I don't think it is weird...returning to the original question.
I think it's a place to go for fun activities for a couple of hours, for a bargainous price. It's a place to try some new things and get a chance to perhaps be in first simple position of leadership. It is often very simple....but children enjoy simple things and get a lot from them.

There are definitiely traditions, such as the songs and uniforms. They help children feel part of something bigger.

I have very happy memories of Brownies and Guides. I did learn new things, made good friends and had my first chance to be a bossy boots. I went camping for the first time and learned to organise things, when a bit older. My daughter gets a lot out of Brownies now and there is a waiting list to join.

I'm very grateful to the people who were willing to volunteer and still do. They enjoy it and it makes a difference. If that seems a bit worthy, I don't mind. Fun and worthy are a great combination in my book. No one has to join, but it seems a really miserable attitude to take when some people are so negative about it.

Seriously though, when guiding and scouting started over 100 years ago, society was very different! Most people did go to church and Britain was not a multi-cultural society.

Society has moved on, and so has guiding and scouting.

Want to see what we do? Volunteer at a local group....you won't find a group of religious zealots preaching to military style recruits.
What you will find are kids doing a huge range of activities <a class="break-all" href="//hguidingmanual.guk.org.uk/activities/a_to_z_of_activities.aspx" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> activities
and having fun!

I suppose the cannibalistic bit didn't apply to us Scottish ex-Guides as the whole transubstantiation thingy was never really popular with us Presbyterians.

I am highly offended at the OPs post.

The weirdo adults that you speak about give up hours and hours of their time, for free, to try and provide a fun programme for the girls to enjoy. As in life some are wonderful and some not so much but they ALL give up their free time to VOLUNTEER.
and to be honest we all have to be a little weird to put up with the grief we get from parents and to want to spend time with the children too!

We are not a religious organisation and yes, until recently we have had promise to serve God but if you objected to that then it could be changed/omitted.

As for military uniforms.....I have no idea what you are talking about. We have a very casual appearance (too casual for me) that is suitable for activities that are provided.

I think you are sorely misinformed and should go get a

I think the OP is wrong about the scouts/guides nowadays, but there's something in the 'Also the cannibalistic rites and torture bits of the Christian service awful' - DH went to a cathedral school which had quite a lot of foreign boarders. They used to regularly attend Eucharist (yes, protestant) and he remembers the look of sheer horror on the face of a classmate who came from a non-Christian culture. The boy knew perfectly well it was only bread and wine, but found the idea utterly appalling. Which if you look at it from the outside, it is - rooted in bronze-age blood sacrifice.