To think scouts guides etc

[alicetrefusis]

Are bloody weird. And the adults even more so. The uniforms!I speak as an ex guide ran away- but shit all that weirdly pseudo military stuff.looked at from the outside v disturbing. Also the cannibalistic rites and torture bits of the Christian service awful. Yet look around and church full of daily nail blue rinses and young parents desperate to get em into school, scary,

"I do have a problem with those pretending that the Guides has always been pretty secular when many of us here know that simply isn't true.

The Guides became more secular because more and more children were not attending because of the Christian, and much more recently, the general God element. So it was a change."

How do you know?

Guiding is the biggest voluntary membership organisation in the UK. There are not enough spaces to fill demand.

Guiding has always been a spiritual organisation. It has never been a Christian organisation. Many posters have already pointed out that the connection with churches stemmed from the availability of places to meet.

No one is "pretending" the organisation is secular at all. That's the truth. Some people posting here have had differing experiences - the Church parades etc - this is not the experience of modern Guiding. The official website explains Guiding and religion.

I don't see why all those involved in modern guiding have to keep explaining this to those who believe outdated information and stereotypes.

Guiding began because girls wanted to have the same experiences they saw their brothers having in Scouting. They joined Scout groups. Baden powell saw girls in uniform at a Rally and was shocked - he asked his sister to set up a separate organisation for the girls.

In those early days, Guiding was one of the few places that girls from all social backgrounds could meet together. This pioneering work continues today for example with outreach Guide units for street girls.

Guiding has continued to evolve - many posters on here are speaking about their experiences of guiding in the 70's/80's and not contemporary guiding - changes are made via consultation with members - girls as well as adults.
Take a look at the website girlguiding.org.uk/about_us/what_makes_guiding_special.aspx to see what it's like now.

I wasn't able to join Guiding - there wasn't any space in my local groups. Nor have I volunteered. I have a massive amount of respect for those women who do choose to invest their time in my daughters [Guide and soon to be Brownie].

Jenny, yes as I have said on the thread, I know things have changed. But those of us talking about our own experiences when we were kids, keep getting told our experiences were an anomaly. They were not. They were the standard ones of the time.

And incidentally. the Brownies and Guides I went to was not held in a Church Hall. It was still fairly Christian though.

Scouting and Guiding have a long history, which is one of its key strengths. However of course many of us remember it as it was when we were children. It has moved on with the times though. I doubt that ma'am any of the criticisms some of you now feel of your experiences, were felt by you AT THE TIME. That's because you were in an organisation of the time and you were children of the time. Back then, stronger links with the Church were perfectly normal. I don't imagine our children attending now find things about it odd....but they will I. He future, just because we and society moves on. There are lots of things about our childhoods we look back at and laugh about or are shocked about. It's just time moving on.

I was in the cubs and scouts, which were both "affiliated" to the church that was attached to the school where they met. Most of the kids went to church regularly and the scouts did church parade on the last sunday of every month.

We went on a nationwide jamboree, and everyone was weirded out by the fact that no one said any prayers or sang any hymns.

Turns out our cubs/scouts was religious because it drew its membership from a church school. Most cubs/scouts arent religious because they take their memberships from more diverse backgrounds.

As for military based - I always assumed the air cadets and the sea cadets and the army cadet force covered that base rather than the scouts.

Chocolate - As a child of a non Christian family, I was critical of it at the time. But the Brownies and Guides were the only activities taking place in the poor area I lived, apart from Sunday School. So it was either accept its limitations and enjoy the fun, or do no organised activities at all.

And some of my friends from non Christian families were not allowed to go to the Brownies or Guides at all by their parents.

Don't assume all children are non questioning/just accept whatever is happening.

"Weird" - Do you mean how we give up lots of time to run a unit? Because it sure isn't just those two hours a week at meetings.

I am 26, have ran a Guide unit for 5 years and before that have come up through Guiding from being a Brownie. Have also volunteered with the equivalents in Ireland and France.

Some units are more traditional than others but for me and a lot of my Guiding friends all we aim to do is give a girls somewhere to come in a safe environment, run activities, trips, camps etc. The Big events show how much Guiding has changed - The Big Gig is a great example. The only time we go to Church is Remembrance Sunday and that is at the Guides preference - if they come, great. If not there is no pressure.

I think a lot has changed in recent years, I now cannot get rid of my 14/15/16/17 year olds - when I was a Guide 95% left by their 14th birthdays!

I made my 2 join Beavers/Cubs specifically for the quasi-milateristic elements. I thought it would be nice for them, as they don't get the whole uniform/saluting/religion/patriotic thing at home (we're lentil-weaving environmentalists).

Annoyingly, other than wear a jumper, scarf and woggle all they get to do is play games, try exciting new pursuits and go outdoors. They don't even march or go to church (like I did as a Girl Guide although, disappointingly, no cannibalism there either).

Grennie, as you said, you chose to go. Most children chose to go and enjoyed it. I guess you did too, or you wouldn't have kept going. The fact that there were not many alternatives where you lived wasn't down to the Guides and Scouts. Why hadn't those people who objected to what was available set up an alternative for you to go to?
I didn't say children are not critical. They are, perhaps even moreso today. Today there are far more options of things for children to go to. Some chop and change their activities constantly and are so critical they never find something they can settle to. But Scouts and Brownies etc still have long waiting list of people who want to join, despite the alternatives. That says a lot doesn't it.

400000 children and young people are in Scouting. We must be doing something right.

400000 children and young people are in Scouting. We must be doing something right

Exactly you'll never please all the people so just keep on doing what you're doing (very well) and leave them to find their own entertainment!

And 450,000 girls and young people from 4-25 involved in Guiding.

If anyone would like to find out more about Girlguiding for them or their daughter, the website is www.girlguiding.org.uk/get_involved/volunteer/register_your_interest.aspx

Those tempted to join for "cannibalistic rites and torture bits" might be disappointed but otherwise there is lots of fun to be had and the opportunities open to girls through Girlguiding are amazing!

I was trying to find some numbers for Guiding, but failed.

Almoststiffty, according to the girlguiding website, 450,000 girls and adults under 25.

Yep, rising to 500,000+ if you include adults over 25. So the OP thinks we're all weirdos... shrugs

If she could tell that to the 20 girls currently on my waiting list it'd probably save some disappointment....

Yes Dino put it. I just didn't see it when I looked on the website myself.

My DD would rather chop off her right arm than miss a cubs night. And the leaders are always top of my Christmas gift list. They do a grand job and I am very grateful for the life skills they are teaching her and the fun they are allowing her to have in a safe environment.
DS used to feel the same way about scouts but seems to be going through a 'Kevin'' stage so is rather blasé at the moment

I'd actually be quite grateful for someone to tell one of the pushy enthusiastic mums who did the classic play Mum against Dad (well, one leader against the other) when we didn't have a space.

My SEN DD2 cried when she left Brownie's at Christmas. She loved her time at Brownies but is just too old at 11 to go anymore.

Unfortunately Guides is not an option at the moment. Guides ends at 9.30pm and she can't cope with a late bedtime.

Oh fortified I'm sorry about that - are there any Guides nearby? Would she like to be a Rainbow Helper and do the Guide programme with you (it's called being a Lone Guide)?

fortified Would going for half the evening be an option? Speak to the leaders, something should be worked out.

9.30 finish is quite late, are their other units nearby at finish earlier?

Yes I should have said Guides nearby that finish earlier.

It often depends on when the hall is available - if Brownies finishes at 7.15 and the Guides want to do a 2 hour meeting, for example...

I know someone who has a police caution for assaulting a child. Who is also a cub leader.

And yes thise in authority DO know.

Oh dear. My ds seems to be missing his Cannibal Badge. I must get on to the leaders.

I have a scout and a cub and am involved myself. They do rememberance service once a year. Recently they did their faith badge which involved going and making some candle holders in a church and visiting a sikh temple.

The next weekend 200 or so across the district all slept on a cinema foyer floor after watching films all night. Terrible, insidious stuff no?

I am so grateful to the Scouting movement. My dc learn so much through it and have so much fun through it. Lovely, lovely leaders in our section and non stop activities. I hate to see posts denigrating scouting/guiding.

As for church - if you don't like it, don't go. Hth.

I know someone who has a police caution for assaulting a child. Who is also a cub leader.

And yes thise in authority DO know.

If this is true, which I'm pretty doubtful of, then here must be extremely special circumstances and I am sure the cub leader works under a strict risk assessment/ supervision.

The good news is, we have a belief in rehabilitation in this country and don't believe people should be punished forever.

Eg, if a man in his 50s made one mistake in his late teens (that didn't even go to court), and has lived a responsible, upstanding life since, shouldn't he be allowed to be a scouter?