To think scouts guides etc

[alicetrefusis]

Are bloody weird. And the adults even more so. The uniforms!I speak as an ex guide ran away- but shit all that weirdly pseudo military stuff.looked at from the outside v disturbing. Also the cannibalistic rites and torture bits of the Christian service awful. Yet look around and church full of daily nail blue rinses and young parents desperate to get em into school, scary,

[prh47bridge]

Neither Scouts nor Guides are specifically Christian. Individual units can be attached to churches, other religious organisations or completely independent. Some, but by no means all, of those attached to churches operate as part of the church and do have a strong Christian element. But overall the ethos is for the young person to be encouraged to be a good follower of whatever god they worship. There have been issues with not catering well for people of no faith but there have been recent improvements on that front.

For specifically Christian uniformed youth organisations you want the Boys Brigade, Girls Brigade and similar.

[17leftfeet]

I promise that I will do my best:
To be true to myself and develop my beliefs,
To serve the Queen and my community,
To help other people
and
To keep the (Brownie) Guide Law.


No mention of god there

My guides know I have no faith but I do try and instil good morals which also fit into the guide laws like being kind to each other and everyone has a voice

We actually had a really good debate the other week about disabled toilets, euthanasia and people speaking English

And then we played ladders

[Hoppinggreen]

My daughter is just in Brownies so she's going to have to wait a couple of years for the Military and Canabalistic rites!!

[Grennie]

17leftfeet - They changed the promise. It used to be:

To do my duty to God.

[Starballbunny]

I'm an atheist I was 'brown owl' for the 1st slightly nice suburb (name of local church) brownies.

Simply meant we met in their church hall.

I have to confess having had dealings with Brownies, Guides and Rangers all my life, I find Scouts infuriating.

DD2 joined Scouts (instead of Guides) to be with her DF. God they are a pain. Stupid trousers that don't fit, horrible stiff shirts and smart black shoes, of a (female) leader would not see that DD did not want to wear her school shoes to run about (she doesn't have boys lace ups) and I didn't want to buy her black trainers just for 2 hrs a week.

FFS we wore jeans and trainers to Guides 35 years ago (only on Remembrance Sunday and occasional apart occasions were we asked to put on our navy school skirts, no one had an official one).

Guides and Brownies have had practical relaxed official uniform for almost 20 years. Beavers have sweat shirts, why do Scouts have to be so stuffy.

[Grennie]

Actually the oath was only changed in 2013. So it is a very recent change.

[Goldencity1]

Well I have been a leader in guiding for 20 years, Brownies, Guides and Rangers and have yet to eat any one!
It might liven up this weeks Ranger meeting, I'll have to ask if they fancy it! Perhaps we could capture a scout and roast him over the campfire....

"The God Thing". Guiding is not, and never has been a Christian organisation. There are Guiding associations all over the world from Peru to Pakistan and Guides of all faiths and none.

Up until last year the promise in the UK [made by all Guiding members] said " I promise to love my god..." This could mean any god: not just the Christian God, Muslims for example would say "Allah"... Only those who were atheists could not make the promise.

After a consultation open to all members, children and adults [44,000 people took part], the wording is now " to be true to myself and develop my beliefs". So Guiding in the UK is now open to absolutely everyone, whatever their beliefs or background.
The leaders in our local groups range from a committed Catholic, a Church of England regular church goer, an number of agnostics and an atheist and none of us imposes our views on anyone.
We do meet in a local church hall, in common with a lot of other groups, as it is cheap and available! We do not attend services at the church.
The only "church parade" we do is on Remembrance Sunday and we make it clear that attendance is voluntary.

As for the uniforms, has the OP seen the Guides uniform recently? uniform

There is even a hijab....

The blue shirt and air hostess cap went out over 25 years ago!

As for being military...well over 100 years ago, Baden Powell was in the army and did draw on his experiences when writing "Scouting for Boys". But that is as far as it goes, todays Guides and Scouts are not a junior branch of the armed forces!

And BTW, neither I or any of our other leaders have a blue rinse or read the Daily Wail....

Perhaps if the OP took the time to volunteer with a local group she might be able to talk sense, but no, it is much easier to make up rubbish!

[SmallSherryforMedicinal]

My dd is a scout. She loves it. No mention of god or churchy business.

[17leftfeet]

greenie

It's not been to do my duty to god since 1995 when it was changed to love my god then more recently god was removed altogether

I've been involved in guiding for 28 years, I'm not now, not have I ever been, involved in church

When I was a brownie we never went to church. Then as a guide and ranger there were church services once a month that we were welcome to go to -I never did

My guides now parade twice a year -if they want
St George's day which where I live is a big event, and remembrance
I generally get about a 60% turn out -those that do come are thanked but nothing is said to those that don't as I recognise its often not their decision

The original promise was written in a different era and can't be judged on today's standards

The guide association is also clear that members take their promise when they are ready to do so and not having made your promise is no barrier to joining in activities

[Grennie]

Until the 80's I think, the promise was to love God. It then changed to, love my God. And then changed again in 2013.

Until the 80's all Guide packs in the UK clearly meant Christian when they talked about God. And most packs went to church at some point during the year. So given this history, it is unsurprising that most still see Guides as a Christian organisation.

[MammaTJ]

It used to be!

I still remember the promise I made.

I promise that I will do my best

to do my duty to God

To serve the Queen and help other people

And keep the (brownie) guide law!

[Grennie]

17left feet - It was as late as the 90's it changed? So not long ago at all. No of course Guides didn't have to go to the church services, but they were part of the pack activities in the past.

And honestly I would have felt a total outsider as a Guide if I hadn't taken my promise. Most girls would not be happy to be in that situation.

I know the Guides has never been as overtly Christian as the Girls Brigade though.

[Pregnantberry]

Cannibalism? Keep with the times, OP. Literal belief in transubstantiation in a protestant country is like, so 16th century.

Scouts and Guides are a bit twee though, IMO. It's more the Queen bollocks that puts me off.

[Grennie]

Pregnant - Catholics still believe in literal transubstantiation though?

[NigellasDealer]

hmm well the cub pack that we briefly joined had a C of E vicar at most meetings and everyone was expected to attend church together at least once while we were there.
even my son wondered if Jewish and Muslim were welcome at cubs, and he was about 9 at the time.

[Lucylouby]

I can assure you that even though I am a brown owl I am as normal as any of the other mums at the school gates. I dress normally, do normal activities, have a normal looking home. I am wondering if I need to change all these things in order to fit the stereotypical guider image. I certainly need to change my programme for brownies, we haven't done any cannibalism activities before, is their a website I can go on for ideas? Maybe I should get in touch with the military, maybe they have some ideas, do they know much about cannibalism?
You can't even join the younger guide or scout sections until you are older Than normal school age, 5 for rainbows, 5 and 3/4 for beavers, so I don't know which section you are looking at to see parents desperate for their children to start school.

[RueDeWakening]

I'm also a Guider - my Rainbows (age 5-7) now promise to "think about my beliefs", prior to September 2013 they promised to "love my god". Although I did promise to "do my duty to God, serve the Queen" etc as a Guide back in the middle ages 80s.

We are a church-sponsored unit, which means that in return for not paying any rent on using the hall (so Rainbows costs £20 a term, or £25 for Brownies or Guides), we attend church parade 8 times a year. This is voluntary, and there's no pressure on the girls to attend. I've had anything from 1 or 2 Rainbows - one being my own daughter - to a dozen or so turn up.

Next one is next weekend, and we have our very own flag to carry for the first time, so I expect most of them will be there and fight over who gets to carry the flag in :o

Do any of the other Leaders know, is there training on how we provide these cannibalistic rites and rituals? :o

[drspouse]

Yawn.

Historically, many Scout and Guide groups met in church premises and had strong links to the church - because so did all the other community organisations.

Those who watched Call the Midwife recently will have noticed that the mums didn't trust the new antenatal clinic because it wasn't in the church hall any more.

Churches assumed that this mean that Guiding and Scouting were church organisations. Some groups were specifically set up for the children who went to a particular church. All the children went to church anyway, so appearing once a month in uniform wasn't that odd.

There have always been Jewish Scout and Guide groups. There are now Muslim Scout groups (and some fledgling and rather amorphous Guide groups, though those are a bit less successful for some reason). Neither organisation has EVER been an exclusively Christian organisation. Whatever his failings, B-P emphasised that children should be following their family religion.

We changed our (Guiding) promise last year (but it hadn't contained Duty to God for quite some time). However, we value tradition, and some groups (my Brownies for example - the girls themselves) like the old wording of some of our songs and asked to keep them. The girls themselves were divided on whether they prefer the new promise, or don't.

Some leaders, however, value tradition more than they should in some areas. Some Guiders found the switch to letting girls have a lot more say in their own activities very hard to work with. Some have assumed that "everyone goes to Church Parade" is still policy. Some now are unhappy with the new Promise (chosen after consultation with all our members... old and young...). You can't please everyone, and where an organisation is volunteer led, you do have to take the volunteers you can get, for the most part, and work with them to make sure they are "delivering good Guiding" as we say...

[SooticaTheWitchesCat]

What a weird OP!

My DD goes to brownies and it isn't military and even though the meeetings are in the church they learn nothing to do with Christianity. MY DD is a Muslim anyway.

I think it is good for children to go to scouts and guides, they learn all kinds of things and they learn to help in the community.

I was a venture scout leader when I was younger and I had about 10 teenage girls and boys who would happily learn camping skills, volunteer to help in a nursing home and help run activities for younger children. Surely that is a good thing and not at all weird.

[MomsStiffler]

I think the OP has been trying to hard for her "flora & fungi" badge & ingested a few "special" mushrooms.

Keep banging on though OP (and the others that think this is a serious thread) - we're all in stitches here!!

[Goldencity1]

Ohh Lucy...where are you? Perhaps your Brownies and my Guides and Rangers could have a joint meeting, if you bring the scouts my lot will build the fire and we can give the phrase "backwoods cooking" a whole new meaning....especially if I can borrow some equipment from the local army barracks in case the scouts don't want to be roasted!

[DiseasesOfTheSheep]

Last time I checked, the C of E hasn't practised transubstantiation since the reformation...

Also a scout leader. I am bloody weird some times, but I have never yet led the scouts in a mad cannibalistic riot. What I do in my own time, on the other hand...

[CalamitouslyWrong]

DS1's scout troop all tend to wear jeans with their shirts. The shirt isn't particularly starchy or anything (DS1's has never been ironed). And they wear trainers. The leaders are more interested in them getting involved than what they're wearing.

I find the driving out miles down tiny unfamiliar roads (sometimes with passing places) in the dark to take him to a field to be the worst bit of scouts. It's not exactly every week though.

And DS1 has never been to church with the scouts. They do attend services, but you just get an invitation. It's not mandatory to go.

[Pregnantberry]

Grennie Yep, that's why I said for protestants.