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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to worry about the accused?

539 replies

WitchWay · 20/01/2014 20:12

DLT for example. How is anything going to be proven? Are people jumping on a bandwagon or am I very wrong to even think that? I don't condone abuse - far from it - but surely they can't all have been sailing along in JS's wake - can they?

OP posts:
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 21/01/2014 23:06

That was the "bar one" that I mentioned. Where I was just as concerned about any one individual as another. Try again

SuzanneUK · 21/01/2014 23:07

Pain is pain, Sal.

And bullying is bullying.

Want to kick me again?

SinisterSal · 21/01/2014 23:07

Disgusting Suzanne

Your mask is slipping

Nasty

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 21/01/2014 23:08

Jolly good Billy.

People that are concerned for rape victims do not argue for the accused to be granted anonymity. Sorry.

Madasabox · 21/01/2014 23:08

prh7bridge you are right of course re the CPS and corroboration, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was just trying to put some stats around the whole thing.

I thought the most interesting thing was that of those cases brought to trial, the conviction rate for rape wasn't much different from that of other crimes.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 21/01/2014 23:10

I disagree Suzanne and I've explained why. Why would you want someone to get off because their trial has been deemed "unfair"? You can't find anywhere where I have sided with the accused rather than the alleged victim. You need to read posts before commenting.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 21/01/2014 23:11

apologies suzanne that was aimed at Sabrina

SuzanneUK · 21/01/2014 23:11

And the bullying goes on.

Kick the victim while she's down?

And keep kicking?

I don't think I can take much more.

Anniegetyourgun · 21/01/2014 23:12

What happens on volatile threads like this is that many of of the most ardent contributors project their image of the world's most appalling women-hating monster onto anyone who suggests that defendants in a sexual abuse cases should receive a fair trial.

Nobody, but nobody, wants to see these men receive any less than a scrupulously fair trial, in which the witness statements will be fully tested, as is right and proper. Hopefully nobody is going to be convicted who doesn't deserve to be. Nobody, but nobody, wants a man who has done nothing wrong to be punished for being accused of doing it. And I don't think there is any doubt that if anyone is found to have been maliciously inventing tales of abuse, the might of the law will be down on them like a ton of bricks - and rightly so.

That 3% of accusations which are false, which has been mentioned a few times on this thread, represents cases where the allegations were not substantiated - that's how they're known to be false, innit? - so that 3% of defendants would not have been convicted of a crime they did not commit. It is such a red herring to say this 3% are the collateral damage, how would you feel if it was your husband, brother, son etc. I do have four sons, as it happens, all adult or nearly adult. I would indeed be extremely upset if any of them were unjustly accused of sexual assault - though perhaps not quite as upset as if they were themselves assaulted. But I would be totally horrified if they were justly accused of it.

SuzanneUK · 21/01/2014 23:15

apologies suzanne that was aimed at Sabrina

It's okay, Billy.

It's easy to get confused around here.

I'm very confused.

Especially with the Bully Squad attacking me and personally insulting me at every turn.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 21/01/2014 23:15

Ok Billy - you say you're concerned with all innocent victims. Fine - you believe that if you like - but you're postings here that are so, so concerned with false accusations lead me to believe otherwise. I can read posts perfectly well thank you.

Naming the accused is an integral part of the UK open justice system, and as beach said, I can't converse with someone who doesn't believe in that.

Rape victims were granted anonymity for good reason - to improve reporting rates. It's still only around 10%.

SinisterSal · 21/01/2014 23:16

keep digging

you are showing yourself up

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 21/01/2014 23:18

So don't rise to it Suzanne, just argue your point of view without any abuse. (Not that I've seen any, but I can see that some of your posts have been deleted - no idea why, as I wasn't on the thread at the time)
anyway, I really am off now, I'm going to get about 3 hours sleep as it is.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 21/01/2014 23:24

Just because something is part of the British Justice System doesn't mean that it has to be beyond critisism or debate. The sentences given are a prime example. If you refuse to converse with anyone who isn;t prepared to debate change then you are very narrow minded. That's how things progress and improve (or not), your opinion is just that and mine is just as valid. And you never came up with that example.

SuzanneUK · 21/01/2014 23:28

Don't rise to it Suzanne, just argue your point of view without any abuse (Not that I've seen any, but I can see that some of your posts have been deleted.

More lies from the Bully Squad, I'm afraid, Billy.

As far as I can see, I've had three posts deleted and two of them were about courts - not individuals on this thread.

I don't recall the other deleted post but, if I did offend somebody, one post hardly qualifies as having soooooooooooooooo many posts deleted for abuse.

Hopefully, they realise that ganging up to bully and abuse me on a personal level makes them no better than the abusive real-life people they purport to condemn.

Yet when I complain of abuse, they attack me with renewed enthusiasm.

It's awful.

SinisterSal · 21/01/2014 23:30
Sad
SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 21/01/2014 23:31

Allying yourself with Suzanne just confirms my post of 23.15, Billy.

I didn't say that the BJS is beyond criticism, I said that an open JS is fundamental to me, for many reasons - many of which have already been stated on this thread.

The main beneficiary of anonymity for the accused are genuine rapists.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 21/01/2014 23:32
  1. Suzanne you are Mott being bullied. You're just being called on your bullshit.

  2. 1:4 women experience sexual assault of some kind in their lifetime. This is a massive ossuey. Huge. Fucking appalling and frightening. It will not get better until we stop mentioning the false accusations disproportionate to their frequency. So how about we only get to use 'but women lie' as many times as it happens (percentage wise) against sex crimes? So if we talk about rape 100 times we talk about false accusations about once (3% of reported rapes, and rape beingw vastly under reported, but it would be a bit tricky to discuss 0.whatever times).

The problem isn't open justice, it's shitty reporting and sensationalist media and people thinking they can take the law into their own hands.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 21/01/2014 23:32

You had 2 personal attacks deleted, Suzanne - one directed at me and one to NT.

Still, I feel your pain. Obviously.

Anniegetyourgun · 21/01/2014 23:34

There was one about Sabrina having had her brain removed, can't remember what the other one was but I am pretty sure it was an ad hom. - about Beachcomber? - not a neutral comment about courts. Perhaps someone who has a memory that works will help. Not that it's important really.

Anniegetyourgun · 21/01/2014 23:35

Sorry, x-post, yes that was it.

SuzanneUK · 21/01/2014 23:37

Oh yes, I remember the one about Sabrina having had his brain removed.

It was a joke and I apologise unreservedly for any offence that may have been caused.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 21/01/2014 23:44

Oh, I wasn't offended. I considered it a compliment considering it's writer. Generally people launch PA's when they've lost the argument.

SuzanneUK · 21/01/2014 23:49

Generally people launch PA's when they've lost the argument.

If that's true, you must be one of the few fighters ever to be carried into the ring on stretcher.

You were PAing me long before I made a joke about you.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 21/01/2014 23:49

I don't think so.