to be disappointed that someone didn't offer

[BillyNotQuiteNoMates]

I've just read the thread about a train journey with a buggy and it put me in mind of a situation I saw recently. I wondered how many people would have moved..
I boarded an aeroplane with my DH and 5 DCs, none of whom had flown before and were all nervous (truth be told, I'm terrified myself) there weren't enough seats in one row for all of us so DH sat between 2 DCs, I sat between 2 DCs and oldest sat alone (he didn't mind). Plane filled up and just before take off, a young family boarded. There was a Mum with a baby, a Dad and young girl (approx 2yo). There were no seats together, so Mum sat in a single seat with baby on lap, Dad sat in another with DD behind him. She was distraught, obviously scared and broke her heart. He was trying to hold her hand but couldn't because everyone needed to be strapped in. I was really shocked that no-one offered to swap with him so he could sit with his DD, even if it had just been for the take-off, and it was only an hour long flight anyway. I genuinely would have done so myself if my own DCs hadn't been so nervous. I don't know how they got to the airport but if they were on a transport bus, they would have had no control over what time they got to the airport (in case people post that they should have got there earlier). So, if you had no DCs to consider, would you have offered?

I would move, but I would be extremely pissed off at the parents if I were trading an "OK" seat (i.e. aisle) for a "bad" seat (center), or if I were separated from a traveling companion.

You raise a good point comp

Every ones pretty wary these days regarding speaking to and touching/cuddling other people's children.

I don't thing it's fair to blame someone who dates sit in a seat they paid for. Students and back packers wing it. Parents are meant to be responsible. No ones fault but their own if they didn't bother to organize themselves.

Having said that surely the dad could have got up and sat his daughter on his lap once the seat belt light went off.

Lots of people travel with headphones and would be using them anyway, so may not even notice a screaming child in their own row.

Seems odd that no one offered-it's unlikely that everyone was stuck due to being with their own children!

I flew with my 15yr old recently & she was terrified that we wouldn't get seats together!

I always get to the airport in good time.

But that often means that later arrivals get closer to the get as I have sat down iyswim.
Also I'm a shortarse & not very assertive.

If they arrived late then there probably wasn't much time for nearby passengers to notice what was going on and then start swapping anyway. Whenever I've traveled on a budget airline I've very much got the impression that everyone needs to sit down and do as they're told as quickly as possible because the airlines turnaround time is paramount.

I pre-booked seats together once with Thompson, as ds was 3 and it was the first time he'd flown. We got sat on technically the same row, but, because of the extra legroom seats and the emergency exit, he was actually about 5 ft behind me, and I'm afraid I did kick up a stink as he was so scared he was crying so much he was being sick, and wouldn't let go of me to sit in his allocated seat. Flight attendants just kept repeating that they were adjacent seats, when clearly they weren't! It's a bit like your next door neighbour being the other side of a 3 acre field! After politely asking several passengers if they would mind swapping (most ignored me and kept their heads down), someone eventually offered to swap after the woman ds was supposed to be sitting next to flatly refused to put up with "that" for a 4 hour flight! I complained when I got back and got compensation.

Yes I probably wouldn't have noticed what was going on anyway unless I was sat right next to them. As a nervous flyer I always distract myself by chatting to my DP or reading a magazine. I have been aware before of children crying, but haven't a clue why as I haven't looked.

I know some people are just selfish. But it is easy to underestimate how much of a bubble people can be in, and thus how unaware of their surroundings they are.

Exactly, Grennie - probably only a few seats had line if sight to see the DH wasn't sitting next to the DD - the dd could have been crying like that sat next to her dad too.

I would move. If my own kids were fine and happy with their dad....I would still move if it helped. We were that family once....late for reasons beyond our control, my 1.5 year olds first plane journey, and I was heavily pregnant....I was a little bit sad that nobody thought to offer so we didn't have to sit separately....it would only have taken one person to move so I could sit with my son and DP.

Did you ask anyone justgirl? People might have been willing to move if they had known you were bothered. I bet people thought you were going to enjoy a peaceful flight while your DH dealt with the toddler!

woowoo - I wasn't talking about what the passengers on the plane did or did not do. My comments were more for posters here who were saying things like - well, if the parents can't be arsed and I can't stand it when the 'parent card' is waved about then why the hell should I move when I was organised and I want to sit next to my DP for an hour.

Even when you book seats in advance you don't always get seats together. When we were flying last summer DH phoned the airline and paid to get a row of three seats together (we had DS aged 3 and a baby). It worked fine on the flight out but on the flight back they had no record on their system of the arrangement. Even when we showed the confirmation email they couldn't sit us together since the seats had all been allocated.

I would have moved without a doubt. Poor little thing. Even if the parents were disorganised that is not the child's fault.

ProfPlum - I think some airlines are still like that? And then there are the cases where you have selected your seats and the sodding airline changes them without telling you. I was flying with DH and DD (2.6 at the time) not long after I had had major surgery. I was fine to fly, but needed mobility assistance - which was noted on my booking. We had chosen 3 seats together in a row. Came to do online check in and found that DD and I has aisle and centre and DH had a centre about 6 rows away. No way was DD going to out up with not sitting with me for a 5 hour flight, yet I couldn't manage the situation on my own without DH being constantly at hand to lift her, get things out of the overhead etc. In the end we managed to change them over the phone and it was OK. But you can end up with shit seats that clearly don't work for your needs even though you have been organised.

As for 'early boarding' - so many people book early boarding, that it can end up being pretty meaningless, unless you can get to the gate as soon as it is announces and ensure you are first in the queue. However, sometimes it's not going to be possible to do that - a small child who needs a wee, a baby who needs changing or feeding, medical issues that mean you simply cannot stand for that amount of time. And this assumes that you KNOW that 'early boarding' still means one hell of a long queue. I flew Easyjet with DD in December and, although I've flown with them before, I completely forgot that Speedy Boarding is anything but. We got to the gate pretty smartish, but there were 70+ people ahead of us. Yes, we had reserved seats, but it was a scramble to get locker space that was convenient. If you don't know because you haven't flown with a particular airline before, then you can still be screwed even though you've done your best to make the right arrangements.

DD and I had WINDOW and centre...

The whole seat allocation issues is for me a big part of why I am loathe to travel low cost airlines with children.

tbh I appreciate its mumsnet, but the world doesn't revolve around families with young children. There are probably people with tons of issues on planes, deep in thought, too far away or stressed or busy to be looking out to take over the seating plans for a family of 4. On public transport, most people tend to mind their own business.

The plane and crew would also be concerned with getting the plane to take off and not miss its take off slot, not resitting families for a very short flight. The father was directly in front of his child too? Not really that bad then.

If the family didn't book seats together, did they actually politely ask people to move for them, or did they just expect everyone to do it for them? That's probably where they went wrong.

I'm sure they all survived without major trauma.

If I were sitting next to the Dad and was either on my own or just with DH I would swap seats with the little girl so she could sit next to her dad. No doubt about it.

What a horrible thread. A little girl was upset.
SHE wouldn't have booked the tickets. It could be her parents fault, it could be the airlines fault or it could be no ones fault. But it definitely wasn't her fault.
I would move to help anyone if I didn't have my own LO to deal with.
I know that people have issues of their own, but a whole plane full of people who 'couldn't' move and would rather see a small child in distress? Nice.
I hope she screamed the entire journey!

Or if DH and I were over the aisle from them I'd take their seats so they could sit together. Who would want to see a child upset over something they could help? Also who wants to sit near an upset child on an aeroplane.

Saggy, there would be no point anyone else on the plane moving, only those seated next to the child or parent.

It wouldn't be a whole plane full though Saggy, it would likely only be the very few people in the same row as the child and the dad that knew what was going on. And event he if they were listening to music or reading they might not have noticed. The parents didn't ask as far as we know.

Even then, the only people that could help would have been the two passengers seated right next to either the father or the child unless two people were both willing to move.

You're right that it's not the child's fault, but it's not the fellow passengers fault either. Appointing blame isn't really necessary, it's just one of those things.

Of course it would be nice to think that people could help if they were in a position to, but they aren't obligated to. And it's reasonable to think that the nearby passengers had their own reasons that are just as valid for staying put.

I certainly would have moved without hesitation. Poor little girl.

We made the mistake of not prebooking seats on a flight last year and me and DD (nearly 3 at the time) had seperate seats. I asked if the young man next to me would mind moving seats and he was more than happy to, which was lovely of him. Some people are a better bet for moving seats than others, young males on their own usually don't care where they sit!

I don't think a child's distress is any more important than an adults distress in this situation tbh

I disagree.

For ten years, I was a terrible flyer. Avoidance, alcohol self-medication, bruised husband/hands from gripping. I have even had cabin crew offer me freebie extra drinks to calm me down. My husband and I have always prebooked seats and, on one occasion where the airline messed up and the couple in our seats refused to move, I in turn refused to sit down (shaking and crying in the aisle) until the cabin crew had sorted it out so I could be next to my husband. I'm quite embarrassed by it all and much better now. Occasionally even do it without alcohol

However, in the middle of the horror period, my husband and I found ourselves sitting in front of a couple with their youngest child, while their oldest child (maybe 4 ish) was sitting next to us. He was in pieces. My husband was concerned about how it would affect me (zero sympathy for child). I was the first to offer to move and swap with one of the parents. My distress and panic became secondary to the child's, no question - I didn't even think about it. Perhaps that suggests my fear wasn't as great as some, but I can assure anyone it was dreadful. But I am a grown up and, however bad, I can TRY to cope (and failing that, get hammered). A child had no such resources.

It's possibly just about the only maternal moment I've ever had

The assumption that families will be seated together so they won't book ahead / will rock up last annoys me intensely.

If I have organised a pre-booked seat and a family rock up who couldn't bother their arses to get organised, I may well be given no choice but to move. Some people know this and do it anyway. Incredibly entitled behaviour IMO.

I once had a stroppy cow woman ask myself and DP to move from our upgraded seats so she could sit there with her children, having clearly only paid for an upgraded ticket for herself. She got short shrift and I politely suggested she offer her upgrade to the person next to the children (who were tween if not teen, so I wasn't just being an arse).