AIBU to not "get" mass public mourning?

[BabyMummy29]

Thinking of the sad case of the little boy in Edinburgh at the moment, but on so many occasions nowadays people leave flowers, toys etc when they didn't even know the person concerned,

Wouldn't they be better spending the money on a donation to a charity.

I just don't get it at all. Fair enough if you knew the person involved. but not otherwise.

I agree with you absolutely SGB. Wishes of the immediate family take precedence, well, mm, I think wishes of the person who has died probably should be taken into account too, but yes close family's wishes without a doubt should be listened and adhered to. I dislike the notion of 'the done thing' intensely.
I would hope that because we live in the age of social media that those wishes would be able to be communicated much more freely than in the past, and challenges to the norm 'please come dressed in bright colours' 'please no flowers, donations to x hospice instead please' would be accepted and not challenged.

I think the Wootton Bassett thing is difficult, because it was a public event and involved a number of hearses. It must have been difficult for other families who wanted to observe the traditional silence.

The same thing applies to cemeteries. I have family members who no longer find solace in visiting their parent's grave, which was chosen for its tranquil setting, because they have to pass others decorated with football scarves and cans of lager.

I think there has to be a compromise between upholding traditions which bind a culture together and allowing people to mark a family death in a personal way. I don't think the latter should be let go without criticism, just because it's what the family wants, if it impinges on traditional values in a public place.

At the very least, it's bad manners, not to consider other people, too.

I agree, I don't really get it - nor do I understand why they take their children along to hold up 'RIP' signs or hold candles. What are they explaining to those kids? We're here to hold signs for a child who was murdered by his mother?

At the very least, it's bad manners, not to consider other people, too.

Absolutely. Absolutely. We should talk and think about death and dying much more than we do. It's good to listen and talk and reflect on what other people believe and what they think is a good way to mark the end of a life.

I think they do a minute of applause because people can no longer be trusted to maintain a minute's silence.

Perhaps that's it Curlew.

I remember to my shame rushing around a supermarket with my DS then about 3 & him asking "why is it quiet" - we were rushing (& chattering & making a noise) during the 2 minute silence on Remembrance Day. I felt terrible & realised people were looking at me as if I was dirt - I hadn't noticed.

SGB yes your latest post tends to state what some of us have been saying since yesterday, hence whatever the next of kin feels is right is,well right.

Thymeout not sure how silent football scarfs and larger cans disturb a cemetery?

Curlew usually agree with your posts but not this one. how rude to assume that the people who clap hearses can't actually manage a minutes silence.

my son went to his best mates funeral at Wooton Bassett, they were both 18, he was a soldier. all his school friends turned up, about a hundred. they claimed because they couldn't hold back the emotion and his parents clapped too. he was too young to just slip away quietly.

my dds carried their granddad coffin. he was 80. it was quiet and respectful because he was older.

no difference at all in grief or respect. but still different.

I was upset when John Peel died, partly because I felt like I knew him in some small way, and partly because it brought back memories of the death of my dad. I didn't feel the need to lay flowers anywhere, although my mum wrote to his wife.

I was quite sickened and angry when the queen and the royal family were criticised and forced into a public mourning for Diana to appease the press and the masses who were disappointed at not seeing them howling in grief or tearing the clothing in public. I thought it was shocking and I'm no where near a royalist.

Body

not sure how silent football scarves and lager cans can disturb a cemetery?

Because people don't walk around with their eyes shut. It isn't just noise that can be offensive.

Wootton Bassett is not a private funeral. Other families are there, too. There would have been an actual funeral later when they could have made as much noise as they liked. 18 yr olds are old enough to behave in a quiet and respectful way. 'Couldn't hold back the emotion' but old enough to fight and die?

Yes, much as I despise the royals, the demands from morons that the QUeen (who hated Diana anyway) should be seen crying in public were fairly revolting. Again, the fashion for emotional incontinence leads to people being bullied at what is a difficult time anyway - if you are the sort who is going to feel better for retaining your dignity, the last thing you need is people either pressuring you to display emotion or ranting on about how 'heartless' you are if you don't.
It used to be seen as selfish and childish to be visibly upset, even at a funeral. I don't actually think that either restraint or open anguish are wrong in themselves (when it's a personal loss rather than just bandwagon-jumping) but people need to remember that others react differently and have the right to do so.

THere was someone upthread saying that she found the mass mourning a comfort to her when she lost her own mum aroung the time of Diana's death. A friend of a friend of mine had lost her father the same week, and was furiously angry at the number of strangers who, seeing her crying, would start bleating about Diana and assuming that the dead royal parasite was the reason for her tears.

I don't think it's the fact that those close to the deceased can't manage a minute's silence, I think the minute's applause came into being because at big events like football matches some dickheads were deliberately breaking the silence.

Like

Like these fucking idiots.

bodygoingsouth the reason that football grounds have a minute's applause instead of silence is exactly as curlew said.

The most moving moment on the day of my dad's funeral was as the cortege went v slowly down a snowy, icy road and an old man stopped halfway up the hill, took his hat off, held it on his chest and bowed his head.He didn't know my dad but just showed a human connection.

It's tricky.

I remember the funeral of a good friend, she was like a sister and died suddenly when we were in our twenties. Her siblings decided the funeral should be a 'celebration of her life' and all with the very best if intentions, in a state of grief, invited loads of friends from university, work colleagues etc. you can see how this came about, they worked so hard on it, it was lovely.

And yet. At the wake afterwards all the mourners git a drink and cheerful conversations, people catching up etc. I remember sitting in the toilets trying to comprehend the fact that she was gone, hearing a girl saying 'well I didn't really know her that well, but I thought I should come...'

I remember her mother looking around saying: 'I don't know who any of these people are..' and we all just stood in a corner.

It's so hard when many people want to pay their respects...

Interesting article in todays Daily Fail... sorry for the Fail link.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543059/What-sort-parent-takes-child-wallow-tragedy-As-toddlers-leave-teddies-memory-little-Mikaeel-personal-provocative-view.html

Unusually there are no comments (as yet).

I've just read that article, I think it's the first thing she's written that I've agreed with.
About 18 months ago a young local soldier was killed on active duty and he was brought to our local church for the service. En route is a nursery that was decked out in Union Jack bunting for the day and all the small ones were lined up outside to wave flags as the cortège went past. These were 2 and 3 year old children. It just struck me as wrong. The days when death was a natural part of a young child's life are long gone, why put our own feelings onto a child who is too young to understand them and is too young to understand?

Ubik - people go to funerals for different reasons. I went to my friend's husbands funeral (didn't know him and had only met him briefly once) as a mark of respect and for her and the children (I would rather not have been there as it was very upsetting). Sometimes you are their for those mourning, sometimes it's tradition to show respect. At my mum's funeral I didn't know many of the people but it was nice to see so many people there. Just something really sad about funerals with no one there or just a handful, a life lived that no-one seems to care about or even notice they are gone.

Ahem that last bit should have said
Too young to understand adult feelings or understand what is happening.
The phone rang, apologies

Yes I understand that people want to pay respects. But it was very hard on her mother - a pub filled with young people, their lives ahead of them. Very hard.

yanbu

while i can understand people wanting to attend some sort of memorial service i do not understand the wanting to take your child along to the place of death and leaving teddies, cards etc

it is grief porn fuelled by the press being around to capture the moment of a young child's sadness and confusion

and as for the comments of cuddles you little ones tighter tonight wtf is that about

Yanbu
The mawkish, sentimental misspelt messages held up for the cameras are tasteless, the press and politicians talking about ‘outpourings of grief’ or ‘communities united in grief’ an insult to those who genuinely grieve and taking small children or travelling to the scene from elsewhere to wallow is voyeurism. Turning out to look for a missing local child is the decent thing to do, but I think grieving should be left to the bereaved and if an incident moves you to sadness, give to a relevant charity, light a candle in church, plant some bulbs as a reminder of hope and renewal….quietly, in private.

Everybody is entitled to their thoughts, actions and options on either side.

Everybody's train of thought is different. I'm glad of that as the world would be a very dull place.

Grief porn, grief wanking ect... are horrid phrases.

What I find really distasteful is people making fun out of spelling mistakes on here or RL. It's so childish and bitchy.

Well done Carol Sarler! An excellent piece that really gets to the root of why a lot of these emotional incontinents actually do deserve a fucking good online kicking and to have the piss ripped out of them.
They are doing their own children damage with this nauseating, moronic grief-wanking. End of.