AIBU to not "get" mass public mourning?

[BabyMummy29]

Thinking of the sad case of the little boy in Edinburgh at the moment, but on so many occasions nowadays people leave flowers, toys etc when they didn't even know the person concerned,

Wouldn't they be better spending the money on a donation to a charity.

I just don't get it at all. Fair enough if you knew the person involved. but not otherwise.

limiteperiodonly I believe that's where the minute's applause, rather than silence came from.

MInutes' silence and wearing of black armbands seem to happen so regularly now that in my opinion they've lost their meaning and significance.

This was done for Nelson Mandela's death at football matches. Did I miss something? As far as I know he had nothing to do with English football.

I was shocked at the Women screaming "Diiiannnnaaaa" with her boys there trying to hold themselves together and some stranger who had probably at most had a brief hand shake, behaving as they did.

I think some people like all of that, I am sure that Jade Goody's family organised her funeral so that they could have a repeat of the Diana funeral.

I don't remember Jade's funeral, was it similar to Di's?

Maybe minute silences and black armbands are happening more frequently now because the 'old' more reserved socially acceptable responses to death are being challenged by a younger generation who want to explore their feelings about death more frequently and more openly.
Is their meaning not to stimulate reflection and discussion about what death and dying means to us?

the public placed a lot of flowers on the windscreen

jade Goodey was a z list celebrity.

Diana was a historical figure and a one time member of the royal family until Charles decided he wanted to marry his long time lover Camilla.

of course it was different. Diana had a state funeral and jade had hers sponsored by Hello magazine.

Diana was an internationally known person and jade was not.

still they were both young mothers with children so equally sad.

Slubber - I don't mind minute silences, because then you do have time to reflect. But minute rounds of applause don't offer the same opportunity and directly contradict previous accepted practice. A silence is specific to marking a death. But applause is associated with congratulation. How does that equate with loss?

I think what bothered me about the horrendous behaviour from some at Margaret Thatcher's procession was that you either know how to behave when you see a cortege or you don't. There's no 'ok to slip for that one'. You either observe respectful convention or you don't.

I wondered what I would have done had Saddam Hussein's (or Bin Laden's) cortege passed by me. I despised the man, what he did, am glad he's dead and can no longer cause harm - I wouldn't have jeered at the cortege though, I would have silently gone about my business and not observed it, pretended it wasn't there, but yelling, clapping? Not in a million years. It's just not done.

I absolutely deplore the mindless, sheep-like 'applause' that's replacing the ever-dignified minute's silence or silence as a cortege passes. There's absolutely no place for it anywhere in my opinion.

Absloutely agree Lyingwitch.

With a minute's silence you can reflect on your memories of the deceased person. Applause to me is associated with happiness or congratulations, therefore has no place at anything connected with death.

Because, I think for the reason you say Thymeout, because applause is associated with congratulation, so although the people applauding are unlikely (I would hope) be clapping to congratulate that person's end of life, they might be doing it to congratulate and celebrate that person's life and legacy. It's easier to come to terms and make sense of someone's death if you can look beyond the end of their life and celebrate what they did, the impact they made, the lives they changed.

I think the turning point to applause was in Wotton Bassett, where the press made a huge thing of the wife of the solder as she wasn't crying she clapped as his body was driven by.

So joy, celebration, noise, music, laughter, none of these should be connected with death?

I disagree.

They can absolutely hold the most important meaning and significance to those who are actually dying, but they also can bring great comfort to those who are bereaved and trying to make meaning of the loss of a loved one.

But it's not convention to applaud. It's the sort of thing that I'd associate a merry widow with doing, like a dance on the grave, good riddance kind of thing. It's out of place and will be offensive to other attendees who have equal 'right' to watch a procession in silence as convention dictates.

If I lost somebody close and a 'mourner' decided to applaud at the funeral, I would ask them to stop it or leave. Just because somebody feels the need to draw attention to themselves and behave like a demented seal doesn't make it right. What next - Mexican 'waves'?

Joy, music and laughter, tears? No problem. Fond remembrances related to the deceased person, mikey taking of events, all fine. Clapping isn't fine; the meaning isn't defined so it's just loud and meaningless - and offensive to those who don't 'get it'.

if the next of kin and close relatives want to clap their lost loved ones hearse then it is no one else's business.

it's not about decorum or what is right in others eyes or seemly it's what the next of kin wants.

people should remember that.

But the convention is being challenged isn't it? And not because the majority of people clapping are setting out to be grossly disrespectful and offensive, but because they want to demonstrate their feeling about that person's death and life in a different way. It's a difficult clash of behaviours I agree because of their stark difference, but does that mean that the old convention is right and therefore must be upheld and never challenged?

Why do you use the phrase 'behave like a demented seal, can I ask? You know that's goady right? Why so confrontational?

Add message | Report | Message poster LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 20-Jan-14 22:08:27
Joy, music and laughter, tears? No problem. Fond remembrances related to the deceased person, mikey taking of events, all fine. Clapping isn't fine; the meaning isn't defined so it's just loud and meaningless - and offensive to those who don't 'get it'.

The definition of the meaning is being challenged. It might be loud and meaningless to you, but could be hugely supportive for someone else.
It is, I agree a situation which has the potential to cause offence and upset, but slowly, as more clapping at funerals happens, understanding of the action will change.

Because that's what it looks like to me from the examples I've seen, Slubber. It's not goady or confrontational, it's descriptive and an opinion. Deciding to defy or challenge convention doesn't have a place at a funeral in my opinion.

bodygoingsouth... Next of kin and close relatives are not always one and the same. That is the point that I'm making. If there isn't a mutual agreement that new behaviours are introduced then it can come as a horrible shock.

Slubber... What about having an impromptu sing-a-thon then, X-Factor, stylee? Anything goes, right? I mean, if the convention is up for challenge then the sky's the limit, I suppose...

Applauding at a funeral, where you don't know that it's appreciated by those actually bereaved and not just attending, is unbearably crass. I hope the practice is restricted to where the cameras are.

In other cultures death is s raucous cathartic event rather than silent respect -I don't really mind clapping.

I do dislike the people who take use mournkng of doneone they did not know, to justift behaving in a self righteous way, though. Use it as an excuse to get aggressive

lying I totally respect your views but you say clapping a hearse doesn't have a place at a funeral in my opinion but that's just it isn't it, it's your opinion and that's fine.

however the next of kin is not 'random relatives' a funeral should be arranged by the next of kin, whatever they want, or whatever the deceased person wanted, IS fitting and right for them.

I really struggle with your sense of what is right? it's right for you maybe but not for someone else is it?

I've been to several wakes / funeral teas / call them what you will where the mood wasn't sombre at all, rather the opposite - we had quite a party for my dear Dad - he'd have really enjoyed it had we not just buried him At the church & in the graveyard people were quiet & respectful, sad & tearful in some cases I held it together just & that was perfect, if a funeral can be thought of as perfect.

I know things change & conventions change & unfamiliar things become accepted, but I can't ever imagine a day when I would want to applaud a cortege, unless it was of my ex-friend who nearly stole my husband - & even then I would be respectful of her husband & wider family.

Slubber: The trouble with that is that when something becomes the 'done thing' is that officious bucketheads start inflicting it on other people whether they like it or not. I think the most important thing about funerals, etc is that the wishes of the immediate family take precedence, because people do feel very differently about death and bereavement. OK, as someone said upthread, that can be tricky as well when family members disagree about what should be done, but in general people who want a funeral ceremony to be quiet and dignified without either howling or people letting off whoopee cushions are not 'wrong' . And if the close family of the deceased do want cheers and dancing as a celebration of the life that's gone, that's not wrong either.

But then how have death and bereavement ceremonies evolved, if people have not defied or challenged convention?
We have now, in this country a certain amount of freedom in which we mark the death of people who we love. For this I am grateful. I have gained huge comfort and (some wonderful memories) of being able to scatter my father' sashes at the exact place of his choosing. I am HUGELY grateful to the individuals, whoever they were, all those many years who challenged the convention of burial in a churchyard.

There will be shock and disagreement when new behaviours are introduced at such sensitive times, but with compassionate discussion and kindness that shock can be overcome.