About eating out and tipping

[Normalisavariantofcrazy]

I've just endured a meal with the inlaws and fil insisted on rounding the bill up - not to the nearest £10 but to the nearest £20 before splitting it out evenly between us all.

The meal was a set price the only thing that varied it was the drinks.

DH and I only had enough money for our share of the bill (tight month) and yet FIL would not accept this and nearly started a row saying we should pay the extra as it was for a tip, the service was shit tbh and didn't deserve one.

AIBU to be angry with FIL for insisting we spend more money than we had budgeted for a)because he got pissed as a fart and most of the bill was his drinks and b) for him rounding it up without asking

How do you deal with group meals and splitting the bill? This has really upset me as I'm now utterly skint

wibbly I know it's the norm to tip in India, I was referring to the generosity of Americans

If a meal cost £10 British pounds in India (I know it doesn't it's an example) then a British person would tip £1. An American is more likely to think that the meal was cheap and tip maybe another £10, I've heard stories of even more.

I went out with friends a few weeks ago and they refused to leave a tip, it was a proper restaurant! I left a tip to cover it but I wasn't very happy. The service was fine, she just said she didn't tip. That's fine if you are out with your own family but I didn't want the waitress to think that it was both of us not tipping!

But I fully support any one in this countries right to not tip if they don't want to

I think tipping in the UK is more socially awkward than say the US because there are not hard and fast rules here. It's fairly normal to tip 10%, or just round the bill to the nearest fiver. There are lots of people who see no obligation to tip.

In the UK we have a minimum wage which is much bigger than the US (if I remember correctly, and I think it does vary by state). But restaurant prices tend to be higher here.

On splitting bills, it always annoys me because it is inevitably the person who has drunk the most/had the fillet steak who suggests it. Just work out what you think you have spent, its not that hard.

Ifnot is a societal norm left over from when waiting staff were paid less than other workers. I suppose now everyone is on nmw and I do take that point. But no other worker has the power to make a lesiure activity a pleasure or a chore... And let's face it, most of us really look forward to our lesiure activities.

I simply cannot see what waiting staff do that makes them a special case

I don't think you understand how hostile and antisocial kitchen staff can be :)

NearTheWindmill

I totally take your point on that matter. At places where we are regulars then I am much more likely to leave a good tip as I know these things do happen.

However, if it is just a one off then I am not going to leave a tip if the service is not up to scratch.

And advocate between stupid, rude, demanding customers and angry, tired, overworked, underpaid chefs.

Isn't that just part and parcel of the job? You can't honestly think that waitresses are the only people in the country who work hard for poor pay.

Personally, I think tipping is on the decrease due to changing social mobility (if that makes sense?) Maybe 100 years ago when only the rich could afford to dine out and service workers were paid a ha'penny a year if they were lucky, then yes, it would have been the decent thing to do. These days tho, we live in a world where the poor are allowed themselves to go and eat out, and I do find it strange that a customer on NMW should still be expected to bung extra money the way of someone on exactly the same pay as themselves just for doing their job. It's a very archaic attitude, which hopefully for everybody bar the waitresses is on it's way out.

You can't honestly think that waitresses are the only people in the country who work hard for poor pay

No, I don't, which is why I didn't say that.

Rufus - i think you should go by what is the norm in the country you are in. So over tipping like your example is just as bad as undertipping. Morally making a stand is not appropriate in this circumstance. Altho most Americans and Canadians i know stick quite strictly to percentages, so i doubt they'd tip arbitrary amounts just because they thought it was too cheap.

whatsthat - i have found food more expensive in North America - so it depends where you eat i think

The attitude that poor people shouldn't be allowed to eat in restaurants if they can't afford an extra 12.5% as a gift to the waitress is even more unpleasant.

Saucy off topic but by that hypothesis all that would happen is the good staff would be hived off to the five star experiences, where tipping is a status symbol in keeping with the meal. Leaving other customers to be served by low skilled staff (and hospitality is a skill) with no financial incentive to do well.

My tongue is slightly in my cheek. But you know what I mean...

It's a sort of mean-spirited lowest common denominator thing to think 'well I don't get paid much more than they do so I'm not going to tip'.

I tipped when I was on income support. It's not about income

saucyjack you may well be proved right about that

Certainly in my dad's day you tipped the posty, bin men etc and I don't think that's as common

A lot of people I know don't tip hairdressers, taxi drivers etc

I tip well if I'm happy with service.if unhappy I decline the discretionary tip
It's discretionary to tip not mandatory

I do find it strange that a customer on NMW should still be expected to bung extra money the way of someone on exactly the same pay as themselves just for doing their job. It's a very archaic attitude, which hopefully for everybody bar the waitresses is on it's way out

That's absolutely fine and I do understand where you're coming from.

If you expect impeccable service from intelligent, efficient, knowledgeable, experienced staff when you go out to eat though, I think you'll be shit out of luck.
In my view, having done it for a very long time, waiting tables is a difficult job and one that actually involves skill and judgment. Naturally, I understand that a lot of people think it consists of writing on a pad and carrying plates; but that's actually not the case.

Also (must stop thinking about this)

In America would it be the default of wait staff to think "what did I/we do wrong" ?

And over here would the default be "fuck em, cheap bastards"

I'd be crap at it loller

I have a memory like a sieve, a face you can read like a book, no patience and if I have to carry more than one cup of coffee I walk incredibly slowly with my tongue out

Oh come on - it's not a particularly challenging job, most people could have a decent stab at it, it doesn't require particular skills or training. Lots of people do harder jobs, for the same money, with no expectation of cash gifts.

My mum once made me run after the bin men at xmas with their tip. It's not something i think younger people do anymore - happy to be proved wrong tho.

With hairdressers i think it has become a grey area with big expensive salons rather than a weekly local shampoo and set/blow dry. My hair cut & colour costs about £130 and my hairdresser keeps all the money after tax and hire of the chair. BUT also i don't know anyone else who tips - If it became a norm i would do it i suppose. I have tipped a hairdresser in a small village salon who just did a trim (which was very cheap) because i noticed everyone else in there did, and i do tip the hair washer.

I have a memory like a sieve

I had to go back to a table and ask a customer what she'd ordered for dessert because what I'd written on my pad made absolutely no sense

There have been times when a very kind customer has indicated that they'd like to leave a tip and I've overriden it because the service I gave them didn't warrant it.

it's not a particularly challenging job

If you are shit and an idiot who doesn't give a fuck, then yes, you are right: walking around is a piece of piss. If you even vaguely give a shit about your section, then actually it does require some planning and intelligence.

And waiters do know if you think they're stupid.

I think it was quite a tricky job to be honest.

There are many, many minimum wage jobs that require a little bit of planning and intelligence to do well, but they don't come with an expectation of cash gifts.

A tipping culture does little but keeps restaurant's staffing costs (and wages) low.

Actually Rufus, if they hear a British accent they are more likely to think 'cheap British bastards'. The problem i have had in North America is they hear your accent, then don't serve you very well as they assume you are going to be a shitty tipper (i have seem wait staff bend over backwards for the table next to us and then treat us like shit). Then because the service is so bad you do leave a shitty tip (when you had been fully intending to leave a good one) and this just proves that they were right to treat you poorly because you are a shitty tipper!

We have made a point of leaving a good tip and seen the look on a servers face change when they expect it to be dreadful and realise it is the norm.

Also being a waitress over there is a career. You get all different ages of people. It isn't just a crappy job to get you thru uni etc. So they often really enjoy their job. They rarely write your order as they remember it. They also remember you the next time you go back. I have never had service like it here. So if we want that kind of service we need to pay for nice bright people to want to do it.

Taking orders accurately, reading your customer, keeping the kitchen happy, making sure the slips went in the right place and you never ever took some else's order - even if it was the same as yours. Smoothing over if there was a wait or a kitchen cock-up. Relating to the diners when they asked advice about what to have - in a non condescending way - being co-ordinated enough not to bump into anyone when carrying four plates and sometimes having eyes up your backside. Being on your feet, smiling and chatting for five or six hours without a break; bracing yourself for the slightly tipsy last cover at 10.30, having your bum pinched and still smiling whilst putting the punter off. Shall I go on?

Are you seriously arguing that that is an especially challenging minimum wage job