About eating out and tipping

[Normalisavariantofcrazy]

I've just endured a meal with the inlaws and fil insisted on rounding the bill up - not to the nearest £10 but to the nearest £20 before splitting it out evenly between us all.

The meal was a set price the only thing that varied it was the drinks.

DH and I only had enough money for our share of the bill (tight month) and yet FIL would not accept this and nearly started a row saying we should pay the extra as it was for a tip, the service was shit tbh and didn't deserve one.

AIBU to be angry with FIL for insisting we spend more money than we had budgeted for a)because he got pissed as a fart and most of the bill was his drinks and b) for him rounding it up without asking

How do you deal with group meals and splitting the bill? This has really upset me as I'm now utterly skint

I go for a general 10-12% unless the service is crap and I'll leave less or even nothing at all.

I find most places have already added the 12.5% though so I rarely go over and above that.

Then you can't afford to eat out. You shouldn't make it affordable by penalising fellow badly-paid people.

You don't get discounts on other luxury items, why should eating out be any different?

'No Starlight, if you keep adding 25% to bills you will eventually piss enough people off so that you wont have any customers left.'

How can you be so sure? Won't that just become the new cultural norm? Who gets to decide that 12.5% is reasonable but not 25%?

Won't that just mean that poorer people can eat out less and are able to enjoy to eat out.

Eating out isn't just a 'party'. It can facilitate trips to London's free educational events and museums. It can be a way of poor people meeting up with family members who are too great in number to fit into their tiny kitchens. The can facilitate social interaction, reduce social isolation, enable travel and new experiences.

It should not be for the exclusive or the rich.

It's hardly Robin Hood is it? Stealing from the poor to give the poor a slap up meal?

Why are you penalising badly paid people? Surely it is the wage payers or government policy that is penalising badly paid people.

Tell you what. Charge more for a meal, or better still charge more income tax. I'd prefer a proper legislative, ethical, socially responsibly, clear where your money is ACTUALLY going 'rules' to support badly paid workers.

Seriously Tempus, you think poor people shouldn't be allowed to eat out? Bizarre.

That's not what I said. I don't think poor people should make it affordable by penalising other poor people. Big difference.

But your big and clever I'm not tipping protest isn't affecting the managers at all is it? Just the badly paid staff. The boss doesn't care.

How can you be so sure? Won't that just become the new cultural norm? Who gets to decide that 12.5% is reasonable but not 25%?

I can't. But if it does become the norm and restaurants survive and still add that, then that is exactly capitalisms model. The market decides. Other restaurants are free to undercut you to attract your customers. That's how our society works. It isn't up to the business to care about whether poorer people can afford to eat out.

Penalise other poor people by not topping up wages that should be paid by employers? Talk about setting people against each other!

So the minimum wage care worker shouldn't get to eat out unless they can give cash gifts to the minimum wage waitress...

I repeat - not tipping makes no difference to the management. How is it going to help raise the wages?

If you feel strongly about it, boycott the whole restaurant, not just the part which actually benefits the waiting staff.

Should waitresses not use childcare or support services unless they can afford to give the staff cash gifts Tempus?

It's not a gift. It's a societal expectation which is built into the basic wage the waiting staff therefore get. Until very recently the UK minimum wage was less for them in fact. I imagine a lot (compared to other industries like retail) are still paid less than minimum wage off the books too.

It's about good service. We regularly eat in a local restaurant chain which is very busy in the summer. When we walk in we always get a nice table, we might sit elsewhere for a pre-dinner drink but we are almost always advised that a better table will be free for us in 10-20 minutes. Likewise I always tip my hairdresser - she's my friend now too the owner but pretty much a one man band. If I have an emergency and need my hair done quickly she will always fit me in. I also tip our cleaner, window cleaner, delivery men, binnies (though they can't ask any more), removal men and I understand it's also etiquette to tip pall bearers (ie the funeral team from the undertakers). My mum told met that when DH and I had to make arrangements for our dads.

I imagine waitresses qualify for free childcare as low paid workers don't they? What other support work do you mean?

Minimum wage has never been less for waiting staff. It used to be possible for employers to use tips to top wages up to NMW, now it isn't.

Of course tipping is a gift. Have a quick browse through this thread to see how much attitudes towards tipping varies - there is no "norm".

What difference would waitresses' tax credits make to how much nursery nurses earn?

'It's a societal expectation'

It really isn't. At least not in my circles. Perhaps the circles of the wealthy who can afford to be so disdainful and set up expectation barriers to prevent them having to dine with people less wealthy.

If you're that concern, leave a double tip or vote in a way that enables you to pay more income tax and ensures policies to ensure poor people earn reasonable wages are put in place.

No-one gets free childcare. Where did you get that from?

Okay, we'll just have to disagree on that. I think this thread proves it's a norm - non-tippers are very much in a minority here.

And it's the fact a meal out is a luxury which makes the difference to me. There are loads of luxury goods the badly paid aren't able to afford - they don't get the option to cut the wages of the people producing them to make them affordable, and nor should they.

The solution isn't to make poorer people poorer so other poor people can afford a luxury. It's to raise low wages across the board surely? Or some other redistribution of wealth. All not tipping does is disadvantage one poor group for another's benefit.

Anyway, going offline now. Enjoy your row! And the resulting social exclusion

These dreadful poor people with their free childcare wanting to eat in restaurants when they should be sticking to Maccy Ds where they belong...

So the minimum wage care worker shouldn't get to eat out unless they can give cash gifts to the minimum wage waitress...

Exactly! Oh and *Tempus that's a load of crap, sorry if it IS a societal expectation like you say to not pay their employees adequately, then that's only because they know they can damn well get away with it because there's enough idiots out there who will throw money at them so they don't have to!
If everyone stopped paying tips they'd HAVE to pay proper, decent wages. There's a minimum wage in the UK that has to be adhered to by law.
If anyone wants to argue that that's not fair though as then they'd only be on NMW, well yes they would! Just like millions of other people. Those people sat at the checkout putting through your groceries on the conveyor belt.
They don't get, or expect a tip if they do their JOB lovely and help you out by bagging up or whatever.
It's only restaurants and eateries which are so entitled and grabby.

limitedperiodonly that sounds like so many people I can think of! It's almost like an anxiety about being served.
And this thread has become a debate about class...

Look, It's rubbish to say "oh, the poor people can't afford to eat out if they have to tip". Eating out IS a bit of a luxury, it just is, but its a sliding scale. A nice cafe near me does a lovely lunch for about 4 quid. So I tip 50 p. I can't afford to eat there every weekend, and I can't afford to eat out anywhere more expensive, but I don't resent people who can, and I certainly don't begrudge the 50p!
Eating out is not a human right, is it?
Also, I don't know whether anyone has noticed this, but if you are regular anywhere, and you always tip something you get better service

Last weekend we ate out in a "gastropub" (Surrey) and the service was very so-so.

They were very keen for us to put our first drinks (which we bought standing at the bar) on the tab - and of course that is because when the bill comes they add on a "discretionary" 12.5% service charge (which included those drinks!)

At the end of the night we handed over 60 pounds and the waiter came back saying that we hadn't given him enough. We had to point out that we had - the bill came to 66 pounds which included "discretionary" service charge.

I wish restaurants would this to their staff. I don't mind tipping (when the service is good) but I don't like being told what I am expected to tip. It doesn't work like that for me.

I think we left 2 - 3 pounds.