About eating out and tipping

[Normalisavariantofcrazy]

I've just endured a meal with the inlaws and fil insisted on rounding the bill up - not to the nearest £10 but to the nearest £20 before splitting it out evenly between us all.

The meal was a set price the only thing that varied it was the drinks.

DH and I only had enough money for our share of the bill (tight month) and yet FIL would not accept this and nearly started a row saying we should pay the extra as it was for a tip, the service was shit tbh and didn't deserve one.

AIBU to be angry with FIL for insisting we spend more money than we had budgeted for a)because he got pissed as a fart and most of the bill was his drinks and b) for him rounding it up without asking

How do you deal with group meals and splitting the bill? This has really upset me as I'm now utterly skint

I think what this thread clearly demonstrates is that there isn't a cultural norm on tipping in this country.

It's all very well to keep chipping in with "the Americans! The Americans!" but we're not in America. Some people tip, some don't - as many waitresses have said, it's probably 50/50 and even less so for hairdressers and taxi drivers.

There isn't a RULE on tipping in the UK.

I tip; 10% at the hairdressers & for a taxi, often a bit more in a restaurant if the service is good.
We used to eat out with friends who would never tip. We'd make up the shortfall because we were embarrassed. It's stopped us going out with them now.
I think tipping is a cultural norm in this country and to not do so (unless very poor service0 is mean.

If they lived in a culture where being a vegetarian would cause a problem and be very difficult (i'm thinking of something tribal perhaps) then yes. It's not remotely difficult in this country and society on the whole has chosen to embrace vegetarianism so therefore it's fine.

And no one is 'bound' by the rules, the majority choose to follow them. Not because they are sheep but because they agree with them. 70% is still the majority isn't it? I'm not saying cultural hegemony doesn't have lots of problems by any stretch of the imagination. Just whether you like it or not, it is there.

I won't slavishly follow rules on etiquette or because,or we've always done it like that basis
I see that the difference,you seem quote compliant koala if you fall in line so easily
Compliance isn't necessarily a good trait.it needs balanced with enquiry

DB doesn't say not tipping causes any problems.

It only causes problems in restaurants where the management are relying on them to make up their staff wages to NMW.

But why has it BECOME a cultural norm?

Because we are sheep no?

And if restaurants in London are adding 12.5% to the bill, and it spreads to the rest of the country, what is to stop London upping it to 15% etc etc etc/.

Neither is automatic rejection of things because you don't want to be seen as following the herd - wanting to be different all the time is a quite an immature trait imo.

I make considered decisions and i understand societies need to for rules. I don't criticise people for human nature. I have what i consider a very enquiring mind. It's just after these considerations i happen to agree on a lot of societies etiquette/unwritten rules.

steff13

There is a lower minimum wage for tipped employees in the US

You are wrong on this point. This varies by state and around 20% of the USA does not have a lower minimum wage for tipped employees. This includes big tourist destinations like California and Las Vegas

But why has it BECOME a cultural norm? Because we are sheep no?

Exactly. Sheep mentality in some people.
Restaurants in London DO add 12.5% to the bill automatically cheeky sods so if it DID roll out to the rest of the UK and become the norm (which it certainly is not here, it isn't added in restaurants) - if London up the price to 25% does that mean we should all roll over and pay that just because it's what everyone is supposed to do?!
Baaaa said the sheep.

i understand societies need to for rules

I understand need for rules too, and am always law abiding, always follow rules etc. There is no law though that says you have to supplement restaurant workers wages in this country.
That's the employers job.

What's to stop them? When people stop going, this is how the market finds its balance. You let market forces decide. Then they will learn. The fact lots of restaurants have to offer deals should be telling them their business could not support this. Same as pubs. They are all empty round my way, but 2 drinks cost over a tenner and 2 beers at home costs 2 quid! We have to learn the hard way and when we have no pubs left, it will be everyones fault.

I too would be embarrassed being out with friends who didn't tip..I once went on a date with a gorgeous guy who id fancied for ages, only to end up squirming with embarrassment at the end of the meal, when I noticed he hadnt tipped I said I would leave it, he then said "oh no I never tip" and went onto explain why. .oh god I suddenly went right off him and I really couldn't get away quick enough. What a prick. You may think im overreacting but to be honest I could never live my life with someone who is like that. I was mortified and made a point of tipping the waiter (fantastic service). Then I made my exit with my head held high...

sorry my above post was about what's stopping restaurants adding 15/25% service charge.

What problems does not tipping cause?

'What's to stop them? When people stop going'

Course not. When people stop paying added tips or bend to the pressure of expectations propaganda led by greedy managers.

Making - the nuance of societies rules are that they are not laws. So only people in the know or in the fold follow them. It's how we distinguish our tribe. If it was law then everyone would know about it and it wouldn't make people feel they belong or are exclusive. Just talking about etiquette in general there. That's where shunning comes in. It is an excellent form of social control. Imagine everyone decided you weren't allowed to wear purple, and they ignored everyone who did. You could choose to be a maverick and wear it anyway but you then opt for loneliness and shunning. It's much more effective than making 'laws' because people can rebel against laws but social deprivation is cruel and insidious. The is the model they have in the US. A free country where everyone follows unwritten rules.

One thing I noticed when waiting tables (here and abroad) is that British people are weirdly..offended by being waited on. They almost resent it. I don't know why

I don't know about everyone ifnotnowthenwhen but I stopped going out for lunch with a colleague because of the way she behaved. She'd order a pot of tea and the waitress would pour the first cup and then leave it to her to add the milk. Normal, eh?

She would bark at the waitress to 'leave it, love' and then mutter that she was only doing it because she wanted a tip.

She didn't get it that the waitress was doing her job properly and if she wanted to serve herself she could go to the drinks machine in the office.

No Starlight, if you keep adding 25% to bills you will eventually piss enough people off so that you wont have any customers left. Loads of restaurants put 12.5% on and are full. And by your statistics if 70% tip then it is the majority, so i doubt people will stop paying tips. They will just stop going to that restaurant.

On another work lunch the waitress brought back our change which was 2p.

We started sorting out a tip and someone said we could just leave the 2p.

It was explained to him that it would be better to leave nothing. I don't think he understood.

Christ, I've worked with some tight gits.

Have to say, that where a tip is automatically included in the bill, I ask for it to be removed, usually with some snooty comment about how I would have been happy to tip, had I not been told to do it, otherwise it just becomes a stealth charge for the meal. Tipping should always be voluntary. London is particularly bad for this. Bet the staff don't get the money either.

I don't buy the argument that it's okay not to tip extremely badly paid staff because you are too short of funds to afford the luxury of eating out.

The whole Do You Hear The People Sing I Am Not A Number spiel doesn't really wash when you're penalising people who earn about £5k a year.

I said that 70% tip and it can range from anything from £1 a head. Not 12.5%. His restaurant isn't that much of a bargain that the two can ever amount to the same.

His staff think the tips are good btw, but they do work hard for them.

What if you yourself are a student or part time worker earning £5k Tempus?

Catsize, we always pay it in cash. But i agree it is a stealthy charge. Also DH never checks the bill so will pay it then leave a cash tip too. So i have to snatch the bill and check it first - often it is quite hidden. Which is cheeky.

ANyway, i've enjoyed this discussion but now i have to go as my parents are on their way and societies rules say i should clean and provide dinner for guests.. baaaaa