To have expected this woman to move seats

[appletarts]

I was on the train back from London, with a first class ticket. In the carriage there was one space available for a buggy with a seat facing it, also described as disabled access. I arrived just as a woman was putting her things on the seat, I said excuse me do you think I could put my buggy here? She goes yes but sits down in the seat opposite it. Uh... I said do you think I could have that seat so I can look after my child during the journey and she starts moaning saying she's booked in advance and wants to sit in her booked seat. I asked her does she have a specific need which means she needs this seat, she says no. I said well I'm sure you don't want to meet the needs of my child for three hours do you? How about you let me have that seat so I can look after my DD and if someone comes on a disputes you being in that free seat we'll deal with it then. She then moans more saying she's booked and why is she being made out to be in the wrong, lots of eye rolling and tutting on her part. I say she can sit in 99% of the seats available and I need this 1%, I need this one seat. Eventually she moves but behaves as if she's been evicted and sits with a cats arse face for most of journey sighing everytime my dd dared utter a gurgle. Seriously? Is this unreasonable of me?

Oh my good lord! You think people telling you you were bang out of line for asking a woman to move is bullying. What the fuck do you think you were doing to the poor woman when you bullied her out of her PAID for seat! Jesus wept! The old MN adage "if you have to ask if YABU you probably are". Little tip OP. The woman wasn't eye rolling and tutting at your kid. She was doing it to you! .

Such is life moln

I

Such is life moln

I once got upgraded to first class with my buggy and the kids because the other wheelchair space on the train was full of bags and there was no other space on the train for me. The train staff took me along the platform at the next stop and put me in first class.

Other times though I've had to fold and stash my buggy, suitcase, travel cot whilst trying to keep a baby and toddler safe and then stand with baby in sling and toddler on seat.

I still think it's outrageous there's not a way to book an area for your buggy and children. The Russian roulette if train travel with a buggy is so stressful, but if you don't drive and need to travel, unavoidable. I don't understand why needing your buggy on a long journey with lugguage and kids is considered wrong. Especially why it's cinsidered so wrong on mumsnet.

It's women being mean to women

So what if you don't find it hard. Some of us do!

I find people who feel they need a car because they have children, and use it everyday rather than taking their children in public transport a bit entitled, as they are putting their convenience and comfort above the environment. But aslong as they aren't considered rude atall while doing it, they'd be ok on aibu!

So go and spearhead the campaign to make public transport more accessible for parents with prams hoochycoo. Disability advocacy groups fought long and hard for disabled and wheelchair accessible public transport, there is nothing to stop you going out and doing it yourself if you feel it is such a vital need for parents.

Apparently east coast aren't so keen on unfolded buggies, although I still wouldn't imagine that anybody would tell you to fold a buggy that wasn't causing a problem. You have to reserve a space for a bike and they go in the guard's van.

"Pushchairs and prams are welcome on board our services, but must be folded at all times and stored as with any other item of luggage."

www.eastcoast.co.uk/on-board-our-trains/in-your-coach/children/

I don't think the situation of handling two young children and stashing a travel cot and luggage is really comparable to somebody with one portable child suggesting that it isn't reasonable to travel with a toddler on your lap because of the difficulty of feeding them.

It's great to encourage trains companies to better accommodate the needs of parents with children, but harassing fellow passengers on the basis of mistaken assumptions doesn't really accomplish that.

This thread is unbelievable. Some people were dragged up.

I guess tho it could be considered rude to keep asking. Although it also be considered tenacious.

It was rude of the OP to keep asking even though she'd said no. It was also very rude of her to ask if she had any specific need to sit there especially as that part was none of her business. We all seem to be forgetting that she did move in the end so I don't know what the OP is complaining about.

Again, she didn't have to fold her buggy! She could have just left it there and her and her child could have sat somewhere else.

I still think it's outrageous there's not a way to book an area for your buggy and children. The Russian roulette if train travel with a buggy is so stressful, but if you don't drive and need to travel, unavoidable. I don't understand why needing your buggy on a long journey with lugguage and kids is considered wrong. Especially why it's cinsidered so wrong on mumsnet.

I agree it should be possible to book a buggy-friendly seat, though I also think if a disabled person needs it you should still have to move. The issue I have is with someone thinking that they have the right to demand other individuals fit in with their own convenience. I think that's incredibly rude. It's the difference between wanting a company to improve their family-friendliness, and expecting others to service your wants. It's lovely when people are kind and helpful to mothers of young kids, and I benefit from that almost every day (since I was visibly pregnant the first time, actually) and as someone who travels on public transport all the time, I have literally never had to lift a buggy up stairs or on a train without people offering to help... but I don't admire or respect the attitude that you have the right to demand help from people and whine indignantly if they didn't comply as quickly and willingly as you wanted. It's a gift, not an entitlement.

I don't think expecting a little self-reliance in women with kids is being mean to other women. At all, actually.

I don't think it's a case you are supposed to travel without a buggy hoocey.

Travel can be stressful with small children, though in the situation the OP describes. One baby/toddler, first class travel, empty carriage the stress level is quite low, it's far removed from busy carraige, several other young children and no where to put the unfolded buggy, which is where stress levels tend to rise rapidly.

The OP sounded rude and entitled in her op (I want THAT seat the one you have book, because I want to leave my child strapped into a buggy). There's no indication that the seat the woman has reserved and sat in was a disabled seat, it was opposite the wheelchair space, it wasn't a flip down seat jusy next to the space meant for the assistant. From the sound of the op it was a standard seat (that in subsequent posts the OP suggested had a seat next to it)

Posters are commenting on the OP, not travel with children in general, and the reaction came about due to the OP's replies

Do you mean me pinkyrose? Can 't see where I've said anything to suggest poor upbringing. I read your deleted posts however and you aren't particularly polite.

Perfect storm, I agree with you in general. The issue I have with this particular scenario is that the woman was sitting in the wheelchair companion seat, which when not being used by a wheelchair user, is the only space on the train that it is possible to put an unfolded buggy. I have no idea how she was able to book it, as it should be free if bit used by a wheelchair user. Buggy users will be directed there in
Most circumstances. This woman could sit in any other seat. Of course if she booked it then there was some mistake, either by her or the train company.

Anyway, not looking to completely exonerate a mouthy OP. just keen for everyone to see that if there's fault, it could be with both parties. And mainly on the part of the train companies!

Good post moln, thanks x if it was just a normal seat nearby then I completely agree, the OP was asking for a kindness and shouldn't have been mouthy. But if it was the wheelchair companion space, I disagree

Why ask if YABU if you're not prepared to acknowledge maybe you were?

Hoochy, on east coast trains the official line is you fold buggies and store them as luggage. I think it would be jobs worthy and arsey to insist on this if the buggy isn't in the way. However that is not a buggy space. If people are being accommodated there that it is general good will, not company policy.

If the woman had booked the seat, either she needed it or the train company made an error, neither of which were her fault.

Even if she was lying or confused, she did move despite not being obliged to do so.

Again, one toddler in first class does not equal 2 children and no seat and a travel cot.

OP its not considered wrong on Mumsnet. What is considered wrong is insisting someone moves from herpaid for seat. .

As I've said upthread, the woman may have validly booked that seat because she has a disability or medical problem which means that she has to be in the vicinity of the assistance button which is also by the wheelchair space.

Whatever the circumstances, in her position when OP asked if I had a specific need to be there I would just have said "yes". If she wanted to know any more about it, I'd have told her it was none of her business.

Hoochy, on south west trains, the seat that the OP describes isn't a good fine companion seat, it's a fixed seat facing a large space, in which you could put a wheelchair, a buggy, large luggage etc. I don't know which train company this is but as it was book able, I think it must be a "true" seat not a fold down one or anything.

Good fine = wheelchair. No idea, autocorrect!!

TheDoctrine, the companion seats on trains are proper fixed seats.

I'm not sure why someone would be expected to squat on an uncomfortable, half-backed fold-out seat for 4 hours just because their travelling companion was disabled.

I think you're getting confused with the fold-down seats actually in the wheelchair space, which aren't numbered or bookable but are just better than standing when the train is full and no one happens to be using the wheelchair space.

Sorry, I mean on long distance trains. I don't know all the configurations on all local trains.

Most people would have moved happily if there were lots of seats free.

Most people would be happy to move away from a baby or toddler.

Most people would be pissed off at this bit...... I asked her does she have a specific need which means she needs this seat, she says no.

Unfortunately, the OP does not acknowledge (or think?) that this was an inappropriate or rude thing to say. This is why nearly all the posts think the OP was being U.

Yeah, I probably am confused!

Apologies if this has already been said but are those seats even allowed to be booked in advance - especially if you don't have a valid disability

To poster yes the seat was booked.

I'm hiding this thread along with the one from the stepmother who finds her stepson an inconvenience when she wants to prance around naked and the woman who thinks she deserves priority in the library.

I hope the three OPs never meet in the same room as the world might not survive the clash of exploding egos.

Caitlin. I just re read the OP for the 100th time to see if it makes any less sense. OP you didn't NEED that seat you wanted it. Big difference.