To have expected this woman to move seats

[appletarts]

I was on the train back from London, with a first class ticket. In the carriage there was one space available for a buggy with a seat facing it, also described as disabled access. I arrived just as a woman was putting her things on the seat, I said excuse me do you think I could put my buggy here? She goes yes but sits down in the seat opposite it. Uh... I said do you think I could have that seat so I can look after my child during the journey and she starts moaning saying she's booked in advance and wants to sit in her booked seat. I asked her does she have a specific need which means she needs this seat, she says no. I said well I'm sure you don't want to meet the needs of my child for three hours do you? How about you let me have that seat so I can look after my DD and if someone comes on a disputes you being in that free seat we'll deal with it then. She then moans more saying she's booked and why is she being made out to be in the wrong, lots of eye rolling and tutting on her part. I say she can sit in 99% of the seats available and I need this 1%, I need this one seat. Eventually she moves but behaves as if she's been evicted and sits with a cats arse face for most of journey sighing everytime my dd dared utter a gurgle. Seriously? Is this unreasonable of me?

FGS so a buggy user can't prevo

Prebook a wheelchair space for their buggy.

So complain to the train company.

Don't get all narky about your rights as a buggy user compared to the rights of a wheelchair user.

Oh and what Op should have done was to check if the wheelchair space was prebooked by phone and then if not she could've used the space for her buggy

Forward planning and no need for entitled face.

Appletarts those links don't support you. They just offer advice on making train travel easier on mothers - nowhere does it say "demand people move from their prebooked seats after interrogating them on their worthiness to occupy them". Of course people can be lovely and really helpful, but here's a handy tip for you: they tend to behave that way when you are pleasant to them to begin with.

You were rude to that woman. You demanded that she do what you wanted as though entitled to her assistance. And you've been incredibly snippy, martyred and aggressive in your posting on this thread when told that yes, you were unreasonable. You didn't get the soothing backup you plainly anticipated, and it's getting you angrier and angrier.

People who disagree with you also live in the real world. If you need to demonise a very large and very diverse group in order to justify your own actions, then maybe you should look to yourself. Yes, bullying does happen on Mumsnet and yes it can be horrible. I've posted to defend people against it before. You have not been and are not being bullied. You've insulted anyone who disagrees with you, over and over, as a group. You've described some pretty obnoxious behaviour to the woman on that train. And you've been utterly outraged by dissent and disagreement. That will tend to attract a negative response. In short, if you don't want people to become irritated, then why post as you have? It was a guaranteed reaction. I don't agree that it's as bad to insult someone not on the site/thread for the very clear reason that they aren't here to be upset by it, and it's obviously not okay for people to abuse you verbally... but in all honesty the only thing separating your posting from theirs is theirs was aimed at an individual, and yours has been aimed at a group en masse. You've posted some fairly insulting and unpleasant things yourself, which is hardly allowing you the moral high ground. You've engaged in a bunfight, and then spluttered in fury when you got back what you dished out. That's just, well - a bit silly, really.

Since you have gone to all that trouble appletarts.

1. This thread is about a baby and toddler in a double buggy and nowhere does anybody suggest that she needs to boot anybody out of a booked seat.
2. This thread is about booking an extra seat for a child and where to store a folded buggy. You could do that.
3. This thread is the same as your first thread.

You did not have a problem finding a space to put your buggy, you only had a problem because you didn't want to take your child out of the buggy or stand next to the buggy.

However, it turns out that even these things weren't a problem because in fact the woman did move.

Your problem seems to have been with her breathing.

appletarts did you thank her for moving?

hoochy your arguments are pointless as you simply overlook the breathtaking rudeness of the OP firstly in thinking she was more important than the woman in the seat and the way she spoke to her. She has then compounded that rudeness in the way she has written about the woman.

She is doing mums and small children no favours.

och caitlin, i think it's a bit harsh to say my arguments are pointless.

percieved rudeness as an excuse to be rude beats facts and logic shocker

Regardless of the guidelines/rules that the various companies have for the allocation and use of their wheelchair/assisted spaces, the fact remains that the Op was damned bloody rude. There was nothing polite or courteous about the way you asked this lady to move.

If you had been more polite, this thread would never have been needed. Questioning whether she had a specific need is hideously intrusive and smacks of entitlement.

You invited the answers you have received by your initial post and then by attempting to defend your actions with the pretence that you were polite.

You come across as little more than entitled OP.

You STILL haven't explained why you couldn't fold the buggy up other than that it would have been a little difficult.

YABU (VVVVU)

It's true though. If you ask someone politely you usually get a much more favourable result. If you are abrupt and self-entitled then you'll get eyes rolled at you at the least.

OP, are you by any chance Katie Hopkins?

she still hasn't answered the question as to why she didn't book a seat herself.

Or why she couldn't have just left the buggy there and sat somewhere else with her child.

I too am slightly confused by the deletions in this thread. I have seen far worse personal attacks aimed towards other posters on other threads yet they were never deleted. I've even had personal attacks aimed at me under a different name. Were they deleted? No they weren't.

My post which was deleted in this thread was in reply to another poster who had made a personal attack yet mine was the only one which was deleted, wtf!

Double standards, much?

I concede that the OP was a bit mouthy, which some will certainly be horrified by and interpret as rude. Other's would say she was standing up for herself maybe. From her OP she certainly went further than I ever would. But I wasn't there, so we're all just interpretating and assuming. and some people seem to be really enjoying that.

I don't think she deserves some of the insults and assumptions she's recieved on this thread.

AND I know it's just an anecdote, and it is better to be polite and nice in life overall, but a couple of times had to put up with someone sitting in this seat and refusing to move even though I've politely asked them. I presume now because they think that I'm entitled to want to use it and that i should just fold my buggy and fuck off. and because they don't realise that when it's unoccupied by a wheelchair user it's the only space on the train you can put a buggy in without needing to fold.

Fair enough some people don't find it lots of hassle to fold. But some do. Just like some people don't find lots of things difficult and others do. Just because one person can do something easily doesn't mean someone else is lazy and entitled for wanting help.

I don't see why she needed to 'stand up for herself' in order to turf another passenger out of her prebooked seat?

hello just jemima, exactly where did i say having a child and having a disability is the same thing?

youthecat, as i've said a little up the thread, you cannot book that seat, it's the wheelchair companion seat. it's meant to be only bookable by wheelchair users and their companions. presumably she was sitting there by mistake or had been able to book it by mistake.

We will never know. But that still doesn't give the OP the right to be downright rude to another person just because she wants something that the other person has. I wouldn't accept that kind of behaviour from a 5 year old.

yep well we'll have to disagree there. I don't think she was 'downright rude'. i think she seems a bit mouthy, a bit quick to temper, maybe gets her heckles up quick. Which I guess some find unforgivable.

But having been in her position on a train, knowing how stressful i find it and hoping that i don't have to fold the buggy, then i can understand that she reacted badly.

she's also reacted badly in this thread. but then she's been completely vilified. so that's understandable maybe

I wouldn't say unforgivable. Very bad mannered though.

Lots of us on this thread have been in that position before and most of us have managed to keep a civil tongue and be polite.

Well my sweet, I hope you have learned to plan ahead next time. Will save you mucho angst.

Have to say, am at so many people who find it so easy to fold a buggy on the go. The thought of taking baby off, removing her blanket and bits and bobs, emptying the basket, unhooking the bag, all whilst holding her, and then folding the buggy has me breaking out in a cold sweat. I would rather stand next to the buggy for three hours if need be.

i think she seems a bit mouthy, a bit quick to temper, maybe gets her heckles up quick

In other words, rude.

I don't think she deserves some of the insults and assumptions she's recieved on this thread.

But it's okay for the OP to insult and make assumptions about the woman on the train though, right?

She did have to fold her buggy. I have been on literally 100s of train journeys with a single or double buggy when my two were little and never had to fold my pushchairs. Op only had to sit in another seat with the baby that was it. I went into London every two weeks for work. I only every once encountered one grumpy person on a train in all those journeys.

same here youthecat

but as i've tried to say up thread, not everyone is the same on that score.
We don't know whether the OP suffers from a hidden impairment that means she finds it more difficult than most to handle folding a buggy, she may have PND, hyper mobility, she may suffer from anxiety. She may just find public parenting a struggle, more than most.

it's not very nice to label and insult her though. just as i guess it wasn't very nice of her to label and insult the woman sitting in the wheelchair companion seat. but two wrong don't make a right and all that.

i still think the real issue here is that it's ridiculous that there is only one sometimes two spaces on most trains for wheelchair users or parents with buggies. We should be putting pressure on train companies to provide flexible folding/removable seating in each carriage that can be booked in advance. Public transport needs to be more accessible.