...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

[Tabby1963]

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

Was totally not basing it on how many calories or fat units are in fruit and veg.

Interesting to see how many people were very ready to slag off the 'healthy' aisle!!

You cannot make a meal from jam and biscuits. Nicely proving my second point!

volestair Ah, I see where the misunderstanding comes in. If you look at my original comment, you'll see that I specifically chose a couple of the examples you gave (self-medicating with food etc). I quite clearly discount people with rare conditions that make them gain weight.

As for why most people prioritise the instantaneous pleasure they get from food over being a healthy weight, I suspect it's down to either not caring or simply not having the willpower to do anything different. It's perfectly possible to stop smoking / eat healthily / insert other vice that is quite bad for you here. You just need to try and be disciplined. It'll always be easier to try to find excuses rather than just practicing self-denial for a bit.

OrangeFizz Couldn't agree more. You can make a lovely fresh veggie soup for four people for a couple of pounds at most. Cost isn't what's causing people to gain weight.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post their opinions about this contentious matter.

I cannot comment about people suffering from mental health issues, anorexia, alcoholism, drug addition.

I am speaking from my own 37 years of experience as a yo yo dieter. The woman featured on the news this morning could have been me 20/30 years ago.

Originally I started dieting as a size 14 (aged 13) and wanting to be a size 8/10 like my friends. Set me on the dieting treadmill which I got off last year (aged 50) a size 24 (yet again!). Dieting doesn't work for me.

I am still obese but have now realised that the answer is really dead simple and can be summed up in two words. EAT. LESS. That's it. I'm not even going to mention exercise although I may go as far as to add two more words; MOVE. MORE. I don't mean artificial exercise that you have to 'do', but making gradual changes to lifestyle which cause you to move more. Whatever it is, it has to be sustainable long term.

It is entirely my choice whether I eat less or move more, and I make this choice many times every day; sometimes I choose to eat stuff (when not hungry) and sometimes I don't. I am a dress size smaller now (I don't use scales any more).

To change the subject a bit, there was a news article recently about instant gratification and how it may be the reason why more people are having struggles with weight. We want it now and don't want to wait. It's something I certainly do sometimes...

Just cost, no, but the cost to access them is quite a different story.

There is one shop in a 30 minute walk from me that has produce - a farmfoods (so mainly frozen, very very limited fresh). My closest shop, a small corner shop, has two rows of sweets and treats, a wall of household goods (their main seller) and cereals, a corner of fizzy drinks and pet food, two cabinets mostly filled with sugary drinks and ready meals along with some cheese, milk, and sandwiches, and the counter is lined with biscuits, lollipops, with a side shelf of bread. There is a lot of complex interconnected reasons why this is (area farms have contracts to bigger customers, junk wholesalers having better discounts and credit, corn (for sugary corn syrup) and other global farming subsidies, and so on) but regardless of intent, if you had to rely on that shop to get your food because you couldn't afford to access anything else, many would find it difficult to make a healthy varied diet out of it.

Cost is more than the price of bread.

Well said volestair.

Instant gratification surely comes in it, but it's a bit more complex than the media shows.

Willpower has been repeatedly proven to be a finite resource - the more you use it resist one thing, the less likely you are to resist something else. With constant temptation, people are more likely to give in because they've resisted so many other things.

That's why 'just eat less, move more' isn't affective for most, willpower is quickly drained without the systems the alleviate the mental and emotional wear and tear the constant battle with willpower will being.

Exactly what help do fat people want from the government? Weight Watchers and other money making enterprises have a vested interest in people staying fat. There is plenty of nutritional advice online. I stopped smoking by blowing into a tube once a week at the surgery. But fat people seem to be reluctant to be weighed at their doctor's.
What help exactly from the state would help them become less of a societal burden? (If that is what they want).

For the majority, being fat is due to choosing to eat too much crap and not moving enough. It's very simple.

You cannot be physically addicted to food, as somebody claimed up thread.
Smoking and drugs are slightly different, as whilst still a lifestyle choice, they are addictive substances with symptoms of withdrawal.

I think it can be very difficult for people when there are no clear messages concerning how to lose weight effectively.

For many it is not as simple as eat less and exercise more. For years I tried many ways to lose weight, mainly involving eating less fat and exercising a lot. I always have cooked lots of fresh food. It had little effect. It was not until I restricted my carbohydrate intake and upped my protein intake that I actually lost a significant amount.

I was not classically obese or even overweight however my fat percentage was moving towards the obese category, so I guess I must have a tendency to carry a lot of visceral fat. Thankfully I got this back down as well.

Unfortunately, after maintaining for 9 or 10 years I began eating what is considered a more average diet - and put the weight back on. So I am having to lose it again.

What this tells me is that people's bodies are different. Some bodies can tolerate vastly differing amounts of different types of food.

Nothing to do with human behaviour is "very simple". And actually, one can be addicted, with symptoms of withdraw at its removal, to anything. See the gambling responsibility legal requirement, it's legally recognised and that isn't even something one consumes. Anything can trigger the body's dopamine response to levels that will turn into addictions.

Chipping - No group, including fat people, can be generalized in such a fashion. Some are happy for medical help, some are not. Really, I'm not sure what anyone expects the government to do, it's far to much into industries pockets to change the systems that would give the real benefits, smaller organizations working on food deserts, helping people and business to create their own systems of health, and recognizing that the current setup and representation is causing far more harm than good.

there's no such thing as an overweight anorexic. Just sayin'.

normal Anorexics are not healthy though are they? Do you seriously expect people to starve and risk Hypoglycemia along with a whole raft a other problems in order to lose weight? You can be undernourished and overweight.

I do get the mental health/emotional issues argument. I do. And I sympathise and think people with such problems should be helped.

But sometimes it IS just greed. I'm greedy. I can quite happily eat huge meals. Offer me seconds of a delicious pudding and I'll have your hand off even if I'm stuffed - just because I love things that taste good and want more!

I could easily eat my way to 20 stone I reckon - and enjoy every mouthful.

I am overweight. I take medication that has the unfortunate side effect of making me overeat. No it doesn't put food in my mouth, but it does make me ravenous. Eventually, I'll be off the medication and will drop a couple of dress sizes.
I am glad OP that you have sorted out your problems for you, now don't make judgements on things you know nothing about, and you really don't, you only know about you.

Actually there is, many anorexic people begin as overweight.

I'm not sure what the point of that is though. Being underweight, particularly through extreme methods often used by those with eating disorders or through neglect, is just as (and in many cases more) physically damaging and leading to long-term poor health. If the idea is that one has a responsibility to be healthy (which I strongly disagree with, but you said 'who else is going to take responsibility otherwise') then both are as bad as each other, possibly the underweight such as myself even more so than someone overweight.

Calamity I am amazed at how my appetite reduces when I restrict sugar and carbohydrates. I could be physically shaking before a meal if I have not been restricting them. Now I could happily skip, but don't because we eat as a family.

I am fat and am trying to be responsible and do something about it. I have battled for years following traditional advice, WW, SW, etc but am finding low carb is working so am trying hard.

I am shocked by the attitudes of some obese people, very passive and expecting someone else to wave a magic wand for them. I know it is hard but I don't think people realise that it is hard even with a gastric band or bypass

I had a binge eating disorder. I was hooked on sugar and carbs.

Then I paid to have a gastric band

Binge eating completely stopped. Weight fell off.

The simple answer was, with the band, I no longer felt hungry.

It took very little willpower to change. It was easy peasy when you never feel hungry. Beyond easy.

I had the band because I could not do what I was meant to without it. Spent fortunes on hypnosis, personal trainers, all sorts.

Nothing worked like this. Sometimes it is not easy to stop overeating without help

Capsium - yes I'm low carbing at the moment and my appetite is drastically reduced and I'm losing my sugar addiction. Since starting last Monday I can't say I've been ravenously hungry - but I'd still quite happily stuff a box of 12 Krispy Kremes if I wasn't so determined to get thinner! That's what I mean - I don't have to be hungry to want nice food and lots of it - sweet or savoury!