...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

[Tabby1963]

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

YANBU

The trouble is its a lot easier eating too much than abstaining from eating too much.I've been there!

The thing is why do you care about people's weight? I don't . It's their business. Butt out!

The OP was talking about something she saw on TV, so why shouldn't she bring the subject up?

The OP isn't just commenting on the programme though, she's "expecting" something from people of a certain size.

All things toxic to the body that cause ill health and as a result put a burden on public heath services should be taxed. In that way the people who choose to over-indulge in the toxic substances will ultimately be paying into a fund for their own care. (fags/alcohol/food that lacks nutrition but is packed with toxicity).

Molly Strictly speaking food is not a toxin though. Different people can tolerate different levels of particular foodstuffs and require differing nutrition to suit their needs. Not all overweight people are unhealthy either.

Since there has been no consistent message regarding which foods are healthy and which are not, would the government be best placed to decide which foods to tax? Especially since there are clear political agendas concerning big business within the food, fitness and drug industries.

Sorry, have been lurking but would just like to thank Q for that information on life after a bypass

That was very interesting

Did you get up in a bad mood today and decide to be nasty?

In an ideal world:

Alcoholics, the obese, drug addicts, gambling addicts, anorexics etc would all take personal responsibility and stop the behaviour that is causing them ill health and misery.

But, very often, they're ill and it isn't that easy. I'm sure most of them wish it was that easy.

Just to go back to portion sizes, it's true that it's very easy just to pour out the amount that we think we need, whereas that might end up being 2 or 3 times the recommended portion size. If we do that every day that's hundreds of extra calories, often in the form of carbs.
I now automatically weigh/ measure things like porridge oats, rice ,pasta,cheese etc, sticking to the minimum recommended portion size. It was a big shock when I first started doing this. How tiny the servings looked! Now they don't of course, because I've got used to them, and realize that is the amount I should have been eating all along.

I agree with portion sizes being to blame for a lot of it

I know quite a few people who would consider a healthy adult portion size to be a kid's meal.

And due to that, they also give their kids portions that are far too large for their age. Of course the kids will finish them because they've been overeating for most of their lives...therefore their stomach's will be larger and take more food to fill.

"I know quite a few people who would consider a healthy adult portion size to be a kid's meal."

Unhealthy food is so normalised in many places these days as well. I don't know of any pubs that offer lasagne without chips, Why on earth does anyone needs chips with lasagne FGS? It is filling enough on its own. I make lasagne occasionally - and serve it with salad.

I know, and the ridiculously massive desserts are becoming the norm in so many pubs and restaurants.

I agree Worra

WE are starting to reach a stage though, as in America, where less than huge portion sizes in certain restaurants wouldn't be tolerated by the public.

People expect heaving plates groaning with food

mummy and worra, I agree that portion sizes have increased over the years and we haven't really noticed. There are studies that show that people will eat more if there's more to eat iyswim. Here are details of one such study www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16053812 .

It is a slow process but additionally there is growing understanding about how the brain works and how we can change bad and ingrained habits by stimulating the prefrontal cortex and creating new (good habits) neural pathways to replace the old (bad habits) ones.

I am particularly interested in this and am using strategies to change the way my brain reacts to food and eating. As I have been a yo yo dieter for over 37 years now, I have a lot of work to do, but have the rest of my life to do it. I'd rather try this than diet because I have realised that dieting does not stimulate the prefrontal cortex and cause lasting changes in behaviour (it's because we have to make a free choice at the point where we are feeling the addictive desire to eat, either to eat or not to eat). Dieting is where we merely comply with an instruction, this does not create new neural pathways.

Research about this is still in its early stages but knowledge is increasing.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to present reasoned arguments to this thread, I have learned a lot from some of these posts. It is one of the reasons I like coming here.

Some obese people have deep rooted issues and others just love food. It must be very difficult to drastically change your eating habits no matter how slim/healthy you would like to be.

I am beginning to see a lot of large parents with their equally large children. I automatically assume they eat very rich foods on a regular basis and their portion sizes are too big.

I love food; sweet and savoury. Honestly if there was a way I could indulge in food without gaining weight I would! As it stands I have to watch what I eat especially as my only form of exercise is walking.

tabby this might seem a bit obvious ,but have you tried using a smaller plate and bowl? This was probably the single most effective change I made in controlling my eating and weight.
I now use a dessert plate (8'' in diameter ) and the smallest bowl I could find, and that really has retrained me to be satisfied with a smaller meal.

Inneedofhelp, I am one of those obese people who had/have deep rooted issues and have seen a psychologist and had counselling too over the years. However over time I have realised that it is irrelevant to hark back to the past because that is done and I can't change it. I can only look forward now and take better care of the body I have got. I have not respected myself for too long and no one else will if I don't.

I do feel happier now that I can draw a line on the past and start afresh, I feel more relaxed that I don't need to diet any more, focusing on making kinder choices and acknowledging that I am worth it.

mummy (can't seem to write "fatlazy" at the front of that ), I have a couple of those plates and they are handy, I also only use the middle part of my main plates (not using the lip iyswim). Don't you find that eating out is an eye-opener, the size of the portions can sometimes be off-putting but we finish anyway . I remember growing up we never ever ate out, mum cooked at home. Nowadays we eat out weekly, sometimes more often, it's just a habit meet friends at Wetherspoons for curry and steak nights lol.

I recently inherited some oldish dinner plates from my Aunt. They are only from the Seventies or so but are half the size of dinner plates we buy now, It was a real reminder of how much of a portion we see as "normal" now.

I have ditched my plates and am using my Aunt's ones so that DS and I are eating smaller portions of everything,

I expect to be a good deal thinner in a year!

Yes the portion sizes eating out are obscene, I order an adults meal, share it with my 3 year old we both eat enough and both of us will have stuff left on our plate. That can't be right.

So one adult portion makes a toddler meal - with leftovers and a child meal with left overs

Blueberry what restaurants do you go to? That sounds awesome!

All restaurants (I have had weight loss surgery) so aim to eat a child's portion (normal, sensible weighed portion!)

I'm interested in the new neural pathways idea. Is that like saying positively - I will ?ook after mt pody and have porridge for breakfast instead of previously listing don'ts?

What sort of new messages so you do and does it work?

I haven't had weight loss surgery and pubs and Indian restaurants round here sell gargantuan portions. It's ridiculous. We have a massive obesity problem in the local town, and I'm sure it is because most people are just used to eating more than they need.

When my friends and I go our for an Indian we share starters between two and main meals between two because the portions are so huge.