...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

[Tabby1963]

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

I have had weight loss surgery, a sleeve gastrectomy it cost me £9800, I didn't even attempt the NHS route as I wasn't big enough unless there are exceptional circs funding is near on impossible unless your BMI is around 50 with health issues. I have lost 9stone 11lbs I cannot eat massive portions I eat toddler size portions and follow a 80/20 rule, the same rule I followed pre op but just not in the ginormous portions. I am 2 yrs post op and maintained weight loss, I have great restriction but most importantly I got my life back.

I fully accept getting fat was my fault I had no off switch. I do think if the memory of having the hideous experience of the surgery does not stop you from cheating the op then there has to be a MH issue as the op and the initial aftermath is beyond hideous

Capsium quote "Do you not feel any responsibility lies with the food industry, fitness industry and governments for sending out completely mixed messages, with little conclusive research to back them up."

Mmmmm, I mentioned the tv programmes "The Men Who Made Us Fat/Thin" earlier in this thread, they were a shocking eye-opener to me and showed me that I (and other consumers) have been manipulated and exploited over the years.

Having said that, I still reiterate that the ultimate responsibility lies with me what I choose to eat. I have read a marvellous book, Eating Less, by Gillian Riley. It has taught me a lot about managing my eating habits and because of it I don't diet any more, I use her advice about dealing with cravings etc. She writes a lot about the role of the brain and this particularly has resonated with me.

She has recently started a blog eatingless.com/ , have a look.

QOD thanks so much to taking the time to answer my questions and, no you are not boring! Your experience is very interesting to me because is hard to find any information about how people live and cope after bypass surgery.

Your running friends attitude is just because of ignorance about the subject, I too am ignorant about what happens after bypass surgery. It is good that you have been able to educate them about the realities of the procedure and aftermath.

Blueberry thanks for your post, after losing nearly ten stone your life must be vastly different. Is your sleeve reversible? 80/20 - is that 80% healthy food 20% other?

No weight loss surgery is reversible.

Gastric bands are the easiest to reverse because they don't actually remove any part of your stomach or intestine but it isn't necessarily straight forward reversing t as I understand that it ends up attached/embedded in your stomach with scar tissue.

My (morbidly obese) brother was offered a gastric bypass I am convinced would probably extend his life by 15-20 years and he has turned it down because he thought he would get a band and it would be reversible.

His grand plan was to lose his weight then he would have it removed and go back to eating what he likes

But NHS rarely funds gastic bands (only my understandable) and certainly not for people with a BMI of 60 which I would guess his is.

All weight loss surgery should be considered permanent.

Thanks for that clarification, Kewcumber.

Tabby sorry did not spot that. I think taking responsibility is an interesting issue though. Ultimately I agree, nothing will work unless an individual has decided to take responsibility, however I think some people are better placed to respond than others.

The solutions are not simple and there is a bit of a mine field of advice out there to navigate through. Therefore I think that support is the answer rather than shaming or chiding someone for their weight. I'm not saying you do this Tabby but there is a really fine line between saying people need to take responsibility and the shaming and chiding.

Oh just reread and the comment you quoted Tabby was in reply to Bunbaker regarding her questioning whether lack of motivation and willpower was to blame in a lot of cases.

Tabby, it is not reversible they removed 85% of my stomach and yes 80% protein, veg, fruit. 20% carbs and the occasional 'treat' food

So for example today

Breakfast 1 egg scrambled
Mid morning- a rich tea
Lunch-cup of veg soup and 1/2 slice toast
Mid afternoon- satsuma
Dinner - sausage and lentil stew - portion wise will eat 1 sausage and about 2 tablespoons of lentils
Tonight - milky coffee

I do have chocolate and crisps in moderation but those foods were never my issue it was sheer volume.

When you bring up the fact that binge eating is an eating disorder and mental illness. Well, a lot of mentally ill people seek help and try to assume some kind of responsibility for their illness, be it anorexia, OCD or bi-polar.

BUT, that doesn't mean there's a magic cure. If the only way to save someone is with an operation, go for it. I'm sure there's many people with major depression who wish there was something like that for them!

"So you blame people Bunbaker, where does that get you?"

Erm, no. I wanted to know what percentage of people had genuine physiological issues as opposed to people who simply eat too much because they are unable to stop when they are full.

I admit that if I am eating something I particularly enjoy I eat beyond feeling full. So it is just pure gluttony on my part.

I would also add that portion sizes when eating out are ridiculous. We have just had an Indian takeaway tonight. I manged one poppadum and my chicken dhansak, but with only a mouthful or two of nan bread because I couldn't manage any more.

Thanks for clearing that up Bun. Must admit I can be a bit over enthusiastic speculating over what is inferred sometimes!

I don't understand how that can be sustainable blue? I understand the stomach is fuller, but don't we need about 1800 calories or day or something?

As for the ability to stop when "full". I think in some obese people that is overridden, so you simply don't feel that "i can't manage any more" feeling.

I've had a cold this last few days and its like a break from my eating disorder. It's amazing. I'm genuinely not hungry. I'm eating at meal times a little but not feeling like I could go on eating forever, even leaving some of it. It's been eyeopening to think think this is how a proportion of the population feel most of the time (the ability to feel you've had "enough" or don't fancy more.).

Normally I would just want to keep going as it tasted good and it honestly feels so different to being able to just eat and stop. A bit like reading a book feels good and you just want to keep reading it.

I don't want to keep my cold forever but I wish I could keep this much simpler relationship with food. I can completely understand that if someone was feeling like I am now it would be very hard to understand the feelings and urges someone who is wanting to eat a lot is feeling.

I guess I don't understand the urge to smoke (I never have) so can't really comprehend that.

It really is, the body does not need as much as you think I have regular vitamin and mineral blood tests which are all normal am also pregnant with everything progressing as it should. That is today's food tomorrow might be different for instance porridge made with milk is easily 200 cals time you add in snacks lunch, dinner and occasional biscuit I hit 1800 easily. Using my fitness pal post op was an eye opener on where calories are hidden.

The nerve that gives you hunger pangs is cut during bypass, some people never ever regain that feeling/nerve. Some do

I never ever feel hungry and my very underweight friend (she's a feeder - has 2 obese children but is childlike herself) can't understand why I still eat if I don't feel hunger. I still like food!! I still fancy stuff, it's just I can't over do it and can't eat fast food for example as it makes me puke

Obese people are like addicts. They need support.

Sorry, haven't read all this

Sometimes taking responsibility for something involves asking for help (sometimes from the NHS) to tackle it.

I'd like to see more people take responsibility for being less judgemental towards those with a weight problem.

It doesn't take "compulsive overeating" for someone to put on weight. It can be as simple as starting a new job where someone passes round the biscuit tin at break time. One small, plain biscuit at 50 calories, each day for a year, would give you enough calories to put on nearly half a stone. It doesn't mean the person has suddenly become "greedy and lazy"!

(OK so I forgot the days when you're not at work, but let's assume you have a small biscuit at coffee time at home too!)

I agree blue, I used myfitnesspal to monitor my eating- I have put on a lot of weight recently and wanted to see if it was a side effect of medication.

Turns out that no, I was (am) just eating way too much.
Typical day:
Bowl of cereal (no added sugar muesli or weetabix) with full fat milk
Fruit and maybe a biscuit or 2 mid morning.
Sandwich, fruit, plain yoghurt for lunch.
Typical meat/potato/2 veg type dinner.
Hot chocolate, biscuit or piece of chocolate once DD was in bed.
Other drinks are water or coffee (milk, no sugar)

On the face of it, not too bad. But my problem is portion control. When .i weighed out my cereal I was having 2 or even 3 portions. Same with the yoghurt, potato, sandwich filling and even the meat (I buy 4 portions to go round 6'4" DH, 1 year old and myself. 2 portions won't stretch and things tend to come in 2 or 4 packs. I tell myself to freeze the leftover, but there's very rarely anything left). Basically anything that doesn't come pre portioned like bread and fruit, I eat too much of. I used to burn it off easily, got into bad habits, and now my metabolism has changed and I'm used to the big portions and feel so flipping hungry! (Dinner tonight was piece of fish, 3/4 of a jacket spud and 1/2 tin of beans, 2 dessertspoonfuls of natural yoghurt plus 2 celebration sized chocolates after)

"It doesn't take "compulsive overeating" for someone to put on weight. It can be as simple as starting a new job where someone passes round the biscuit tin at break time. One small, plain biscuit at 50 calories, each day for a year, would give you enough calories to put on nearly half a stone. It doesn't mean the person has suddenly become "greedy and lazy"!"

That is so true. We often have packs of biscuits on the desk. As my job share partner and I want to control our eating we have opted out and are avoiding the biscuits. It is the thin edge of the wedge.

I agree with Crohnicallysick that portion control is a major issue. I have started weighing out my cereal every morning, and 30g looks very meagre.

I might start eating my cereal of of DD's bowl. Maybe then one portion will actually cover the bottom of it!

Chronically I eat cereal from DS spongebob bowl as it is impossible to get more than 30grams in it plus milk, helps me keep portions down! I always use the spongebob bowl to measure our a decant portion of rice to. It's quite handy that bowl!

I have pcos - for me it makes putting on weight v easy and losing it v hard - v definitely hormonally linked - eg went on the pill and with no lifestyle changes I put on 3 stone in less than a year. Again getting pg I went from 13-14 stone to 16 stone after my mc at 8 weeks - so over 2 stone in 2 months and there was no binging etc. I don't drink really, drink tea or diet coke or a splash of elderflower in sparkling water and eat sensibly with no snacks and I still put on weight.

example of my day

2x weetabix (have ibs and dietician suggested this for fibre.

lunch was half a mino quiche with salad

dinner was veggie sausage grilled and boiled veg

I drank tea all day and a can of diet coke

I walked 2 miles.

I am not greedy and lazy - you might be fair enough to speak for yourself but fuck off with your assumptions!

Ps after giving birth to ds I was 5 stone over my pre preg weight - have lost 2.5 stone but that has taken 3 years