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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand why ex is taking paternity leave?

286 replies

marleyandme2014 · 10/01/2014 21:59

Split with my ex shortly after finding out I was pregnant.

Not had much to do with him during the pregnancy - not once had him ask me if I needed anything for the baby etc which I feel is a bit off - however all of a sudden he is contacting me asking for my mat b1 form so that he can claim paternity leave!

I thought this was for fathers who would be spending their time with the newborn - not in this case though - he said quite blatantly that he wants to use the time to catch up with friends and buy a car.

So as not to drip feed, I am with my long term partner again now - pregnancy with ex not planned of course but me and my partner are very happy and he will be fully involved in her care and upbringing. We will be getting married in the summer.

AIBU in thinking he is unreasonable, or is this OK?

OP posts:
QOD · 11/01/2014 23:30

I know someone who'd left his pregnAnt wife for the ow and still took pat leave, he was entitled to it

Picturesinthefirelight · 11/01/2014 23:36

www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/sc3.pdf

This us what fathers need to full in.

PeriodFeatures · 11/01/2014 23:49

BohemianGirl Oh dear God. I cant say what I'm thinking.

Probably the exact same thing as me, Bohemian Girl

And me.

I'm actually shocked by this thread and the responses to it. Thank you for the insight.

Just wow.

PeriodFeatures · 12/01/2014 00:01

NO. I'm going to fucking say it.

There is a CHILD at the centre of this situation. A CHILD. If you one or both adults are too emotionally incompetent and unable to communicate with each other to negotiate what you need to negotiate with each other. GET HELP.

To deny a child knowledge of their biological father, and i assume that is what the suggestion is here, is PLAYING GOD, and denying a child the right to know it's own identity to give yourself an easier life.

I am actually shocked that the overwhelming response is that it is o.k to do this. On the basis that some feckless bloke has shown little interest and is now asking for PAT leave. Has it occurred to anyone that this feckless in communicative idiot might just be that. To deny his paternity and to deny the child knowledge is just abuse of power.

I really feel sorry for some of these men who have fathered children and have no rights. How on earth are men supposed to step up to any responsibility when women can wield this power over them and deny their paternity?

It's frankly immature and utterly disrespectful to the human being you are creating.

Yes i understand that some situations happen and it's not cut and dry but there has to be a line drawn.

I feel very sad.

PeriodFeatures · 12/01/2014 00:02

Apologies for the typos. I am furious.

whatever5 · 12/01/2014 00:25

I don't think that not putting the biological father on the birth certificate = denying a child knowledge of the biological father.

Bloodyteenagers · 12/01/2014 00:32

So because he wants a dna test thats wrong. Really? Ob what planet? He dont know he is the dad. Look at it from his pov. There's at least 2 men involved.
He's wrong because he's not provided anything. Does anyone blame him really? Why at the moment should he be financially or emotionally involved in something that for all he knows, isnt is. He only has the ops word at the moment.

You cannot write this man out of the childs life. The child has the legal and moral right to know both their parents and all the families. The child is innocent and should not be denied their rights because of mistakes made by parents. Obviously there are expections, but really the op hasnt posted anything that would put the child at risk.

You cannot put anyone down as the father. That is a criminal offence.

jacks365 · 12/01/2014 00:36

Period my daughter's father is not named on her birth certificate but he is named in her medical notes and everyone around me knows who her father is. I'm not denying her any knowledge at all but it takes 2 people to have a conversation. He doesn't want to know, he said we could both rot in hell, he refuses to acknowledge her existence at all. He pays via csa because he has no choice. I'd happily do a dna test if he arranged one but he won't because he can't then deny she is his once it's in writing.

By the way this was not someone that I barely knew this is someone I have known for the last 30 years but you know what the last 3 years and especially the last 18 months have proved I don't really know him after all.

Sorry for the rant op but not every person out there is a reasonable human being and someone who wants to claim paternity leave to go on holiday doesn't deserve the title dad.

PeriodFeatures · 12/01/2014 00:42

It is a legal document. If the OP decided not to tell DC who her biological father was she would have that power. Is this o.k? Really? Honestly?

I know that it is complicated, I can't imagine how difficult it must be for everyone involved but children/people need to know where they come from, at the very least. People i know who have no idea who their father is/have never met them, experience this as a gap.

I might be totally wrong and OPs DP may be a father who fulfills this role and any question the child has over their paternity may be arbitrary as her needs may be met, she may be perfectly happy. BUT there is a biological father hovering around in the background here. OP does not seem to have considered his wishes and feelings at all. The bloke must be confused, frustrated, angry. She is discussing this as if this bloke has absolutely no feelings whatsoever and written him of as useless.

If you were the adult child of that parent, how would you feel knowing your mother made those choices?

I have worked with young people who feel it very keenly when they have a blank space instead of a named father.

Sorry, i know it's not a popular view but wherever possible, kids need Fathers both in presence they also need to need to know where they come from. It is their right. OP has the power to give her child that right and she is choosing not to.

Ninasaurus · 12/01/2014 00:49

I think it is awful that mothers who know the father choose not to put them on the birth certificate.

This is nothing to do with YOU. It is your CHILD'S birth certificate. Not yours.

How horrible not to have your father's name on your birth certificate because your mother chose not to name him. Very sad :(

He doesn't need paternity leave as you two obviously don't get on and he won't be supporting you and the child is too young to be away from its mother but I don't think you should make the decision to leave him off the bc.

Also he hasn't even had the chance to be a father yet so how in earth can you declare him as a poor father!? Confused

PeriodFeatures · 12/01/2014 00:52

jack That sounds like a tough situation. I can see how it might be that a child might want to scrub a fathers name off a birth certificate too! It's just a tough judgement call to make i'm sure. I just think that by having a fathers name on the birth certificate, the child can be legitimately pissed off and make that choice for themselves. My dad was utterly utterly shit and useless drug addicted alcoholic. My mum told me that she sometimes regretted supporting contact to be maintained as it was often difficult, but as an adult, i am glad she did.

Everyone's circumstances are different and i can't imagine how tough it must be to have a child with someone where there is such animosity or lack of interest. It must be a balance between wanting to protect your family from this horribleness of a shit dad and wanting your child to have a named father.

BUT who are we to play God/Judge/Jury? But then the lgal system being as it is, fears of the powers it has ? Who knows. What is right. I don't know.

PeriodFeatures · 12/01/2014 00:53

I do know that Children Have rights. They are not the property of mothers, only the responsibility. Part of that responsibility is to support the child to be able to exercise their rights.

jacks365 · 12/01/2014 00:54

I agree and have used that argument to try to persuade her father to be in her life but he won't but the point is that even without him being on her birth certificate she will always know who he is even if she can't know him. With regards to the op she was asking about him claiming the paternity leave and using it to go on holiday not to get to know his child, is that the action of a father who wants to be involved? It's easy enough to vilify women and say poor men refused to be a part but what has this man done to show he wants a real part of this child's life.

jacks365 · 12/01/2014 00:59

Can I also add that putting his name on the birth certificate was never a decision I had any choice about. I was happy for him to be on but he refused its only since everything blew up that I realised how lucky I was that he refused. It's hard to understand the legal implications if a father with pr disappears.

DoubleLifeIsALifeOfSorts · 12/01/2014 00:59

I absolutely get all the shock and horror and empassioned posts and I not too long ago would have said the same.

But since I have felt first hand how much power an unpleasant father has, and how vulnerable you and your child can be... I have become more practical in my thinking. By which I mean not leaving myself open for other people to abuse their power over me. I don't trust that people will 'do the right thing' just because it's the right thing.

So although I'm totally aware what it sounds like, but I would stand by my advice: don't put someone you don't trust in a position of trust.

Nb if OP was suggesting cutting the father out of the child's life in any other way I'd be utterly and totally against it.

PeriodFeatures · 12/01/2014 01:00

Jack I think it is men being villified here. Sorry. The thread has gone on a tangent but i will uphold what i feel and that is that it is the child's right to have a named father on a birth certificate if at all possible. The person making that choice ought to be representing the best interest of the child. Is witholding this really in the best interest of the child?

Ninasaurus · 12/01/2014 01:00

I have known people who have had mothers dishonestly keep their father from them and this has irreparably harmed their relationships with their mothers as adults.

And yes, some fathers were supposedly 'bad fathers' but the child/adult never got the chance to find out this for themselves so they had a lot of issues about whether this was in fact the truth.

Always be honest and try to detach your own feelings that have resulted from your own relationship breakdown with their father. Try and look at the relationship between the child and the father as a new and separate relationship. Your child is only a child for 18 years. They can have a relationship with their father for many many more years than that. Why deny them this opportunity from birth?

jacks365 · 12/01/2014 01:08

But not putting a father on the birth certificate does not deny the father a part in the childs life. He can still have contact, still get to know his child, still financially support his child by paying maintenance. What does prevent a father being a part is using paternity leave to go on holiday rather than meeting his child.

PeriodFeatures · 12/01/2014 01:10

I was happy for him to be on but he refused its only since everything blew up that I realised how lucky I was that he refused. It's hard to understand the legal implications if a father with pr disappears

That sounds complicated. The legal implications would be that mother would have PR.

By which I mean not leaving myself open for other people to abuse their power over me. I don't trust that people will 'do the right thing' just because it's the right thing

I get that too ^^ it is not straight forward and i'm not denying how difficult and scary some situations can be.

I am just shocked at the response. 'Don't put him on the birth certificate' There is no evidence that he is dangerous, the legal system is failing op and putting child at risk of harm, that paternity is even in question. It is the child's right to know who her father is and indeed have contact with him.

Jesus Christ. No wonder society is in a fucking great mess. We are morally up shit creak.

IneedAsockamnesty · 12/01/2014 01:10

Not being named on a birth certificate at time of registration does not mean never being named.

Any father has the legal right to go to court and obtain a court order without the mothers consent to be added.

It can also be edited to add him at any time after registration by agreement with the mother without going to court.

You also do not need to be named on it to obtain a contact order.

It also does not prevent a child being told who their father is nor does it prevent the mother from engaging with contact.

Caitlin17 · 12/01/2014 01:18

You do understand some of you that for unmarried parents the father has to agree, be there in person or provide a declaration in statutory form before he can be named?

I know almost nothing about my father. It has never bothered me in the slightest. I've no interest in finding out about him, as far as I'm concerned my family are my mother and my now deceased but fantastic maternal grandparents.

jacks365 · 12/01/2014 01:21

Period its not that simple if the father disappears, you still both have pr. You wouldn't be able to go abroad without applying to the court for permission whether for a holiday or even a day trip to calais so that school trip will cost you even more. If both parents have pr then both need to consent for the child to leave the country even for 5 minutes. Ok there isn't anyone likely to do anything or stop you but legally its abduction.

If you reread the ops posts all she mentions is him wanting to take paternity leave for his own use. Paying maintenance into an account he controls and being on the birth certificate. She said she tried to talk to him about contact but he refused.

Ninasaurus · 12/01/2014 01:23

Yes but not putting the fathers name on the bc is showing the mother's obstructive attitude right from birth. So you can probably assume she will continue to be obstructive. She needs to realise that although her relationship with the father is over it is only just beginning between the child and father.

I think that it is wrong and I don't think the mother should deliberately leave it off. It is not HER birth certificate.

Separate issue from the paternity leave issue though, as this is for support of the mother. So mothers decision should be final.

jacks365 · 12/01/2014 01:27

Nina it's us who are advising against putting the father on in this situation the op hasn't refused, the only thing she has objected to is the paternity leave.

IneedAsockamnesty · 12/01/2014 01:29

That sounds complicated. The legal implications would be that mother would have PR

There are many many more legal implications, a father with PR no matter how absent, he could have never even met his child can rock on up to a school and just take the child and the school legally cannot stop him (without a court order).and unless the child is in danger you would have to go to court to get them ordered to be returned.

They can cause all manner of problems unfortunately not every one is good not every one is nice.

And if this one genuinely believes he's is either not of could not be the dad then he could be committing an offence by registering himself as the dad.

Does a dad who wants to commit fraud so he can have a jolly and pretend its pat leave really strike you as someone with a real interest in his child because to me it wouldn't even suggest a pretend interest.