to not let grandparents see grandson over christmas

[wontletmesignin]

Split up with my ex in early november. Domestic violence. Police, solicitors, social worker, domestic violence advocate and therapist involved. All are backing me.

I was advised to stop contact altogether with ds dad as he was extremely emotionally abusive. Not just to me, to my kids also - his son included.

He breached his non molestation order and is up on trial in janurary.
Although we are hoping it falls through as there is too much against him.
Everyone will state they want the non-mol kept in place.

Only ive had his parents contact me via a solicitor asking to see ds over christmas.

I feel awful about this. His mother did threaten that i would never see my son again when they took him from me for three days.
This has left me somewhat worried and im having nightmares about every which way he can be taken from me.
Exes parents coming to see my son is one way they could take him.

I know if they did i would get him straight back, but it was far too traumatic the first time. I cant put myself or my dc through that again.

So would i be being unreasonable if i didnt allow contact to take place?

Not at least until i have gotten over them taking my ds.

I think you should write to or email the solicitors, not phone them. You need a record of what you have said, and equally I would suggest you don't want to get drawn into a discussion with them.

I think you are absolutely right to say no, and you are equally entitled to say that you do not want the people who abducted ds in your house. However, I thought it was incorrect to say that grandparents have no rights at all? I've certainly heard of them going to court for rights of access. So at a later stage you might have to consider whether they could have supervised contact.

Is there any reason why ds can't go to nursery? If the nursery has strict instructions that you are the only person who can collect him, would that be safe?

The solisiter is legally obliged to pass on communications unless instructed otherwise by you or they are threatening.

The funding for him/her to deal with this comes out of your legal aid, you can get your certificate extended to cover family members of the abuser if you have legit reason to belive they are acting on your ex's instructions.

'unless instructed otherwise by you'

There you go. Instruct away!

Nenny,

Grandparents have no rights at all however they can ask the courts permission to have a hearing and request contact. Its unusual for them to actually get the contact.

And yes there is a reason why the dc can't go to nursery. It is against the law for a nursery or school to refuse to hand over a child to or on the instruction on a parent with PR no matter what the other parent requests if that other parent does not have a court order telling the nursery/school not to.

Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought it was the PIL's solicitors you were dealing with, not your own. That'll teach me not to skim the thread.

However, I don't think the solicitor has been doing anything wrong in passing on the messages. OP would be furious if there was something in the messages that she needed to know about, and indeed it seems to me that she definitely does need to know about this - forewarned is forearmed. If the solicitor just ignores it, the PILs could get a court order, pointing out that they've tried to resolve it but had no response.

If the solicitor tells the PILs that he's instructed not to pass on the messages, all that will happen is that they will contact OP direct, which will be much more upsetting.

A quick note saying please cease engaging with xyz on any matters relating to me or my dc, I have no desire to interact with them and do not wish to waste my LA funding on dealing with there harassment. And I do not wish for any information about us to be passed to them.

But, sockreturning, do we know that the non mol order does not also extend to the son? We're told that the son also was being abused. Surely if that is the case he has no right either to pick up the child or get anyone else to do so?

And even if it doesn't extend to the son, I would have thought that everyone concerned would have sorted out rights of access at or around the time the order was made? He couldn't just choose to collect the son when he felt like it, surely, not least because OP would also be there to collect and that would mean breaching the order protecting her?

Thanx all.
I will email the solcitors shortly. It definitely is better than a phone call.

The GP couldnt contact me personally as i will state in the email that no contact will be taking place, therefore they would have no reason to.
If they did - it would then be breaching the non mol and bail conditions.

appalled *They went to the nursery and took my son out early. They said they would bring him back the followong day. They didnt.
They then told me i would never see him again, over their dead bodies etc.etc. told me theyd changed his nursery *

No. no. no. no. And if possible, get the non-mol order extended and instruct the solicitor not to pass on messages.

And keep your son off from nursery. I reallly hope you can get a place elsewhere in jan.

Fuck that. The apple never falls far from the tree. I I would just maintain silence and no contact until the court case. Any interim contact in the meantime may muddy the waters x

Nennypops - the non mol was made to where he wasnt allowed within 100 feet of me and my dc. However he was allowed to collect ds from nursery. But that was before i was advised to cease contact.

He has already taking him from nursery once before ds was actually due to leave nursery.
So although he would breach the non mol on collection, if he did plan on taking him. But whats to say he wouldnt go before collection time?

I need SS to sort this out quick so i dont feel i need to sit in the nursery during his sessions

Is all the abduction/threat behaviour registered with the police and courts? Surely they should be on some kind of formal warning?

hugs

If they contacted you direct to ask for contact for themselves, why would that be breaking the non mol order against ex?

Yes everything is logged. Every tiny little thing that has happened - i have informed the police.

It seems to me you need to be going back to your solicitor to sort out who does or does not have contact rights properly. If you've been advised to cease contact, it needs to be put on a proper legal footing.

Because it states that others should not be instructed to contact me also.

I dunno. Im just assuming that if they did - it could go down as him instructing them to do so?

Not really. I don't think there would be any automatic assumption that they could only be contacting you on their son's instructions, they could simply say they contacted you only because they want to see their grandson at Christmas - and you wouldn't be able to prove anything different.

And even if it doesn't extend to the son, I would have thought that everyone concerned would have sorted out rights of access at or around the time the order was made? He couldn't just choose to collect the son when he felt like it, surely, not least because OP would also be there to collect and that would mean breaching the order protecting her?

Say you had a none mol against me (I'm pretending to be your husband now) if this order made allowances for me to collect or contact our children, it could not be used to prevent me being in a public place where I had a legit reason to be so nursery at collection time it also would not prevent me from phoning nursery and giving consent for a named person to collect.

And as I have recently been pissed off to experience even if its apparently obvious to anybody that you have instructed someone else to contact on your behalf it will not be treated as a breach unless you admit asking them.

Often none mols will not include the children because people tend not to ask for it,but with young children who are always with the person who the order protects it can be massively useful even if they are not named.

A non mol only covers the named person so not their mum dad best friend sister ect but it if it contains the line " or incite encourage any third party to intimidate or harass" (or anything that means the same thing) then it still won't prevent them contacting but the named person can be in breach if it can be proven that they incited or instructed the contact.the third party will have done nothing wrong unless during the contact they commit an offence.

Op, please go see your solicitor take a friend with you to help make notes.

If the wording on your order has not been changed to prevent him collecting then no matter what SS say he can still do so.

Social services have to act within the law, they cannot just instruct nursery not to hand dc over.

This bit is your job they can recommend and they can advise against but they cannot order.they are also not able to give legal advice.

They can give you reports to help you in court

They are trying to bully and scare you by sending a solicitor's letter. One thing to bear in mind is that if they manage to establish some form of contact, this increases their chances of applying for contact through the courts. They will have to first apply for leave but I have seen it happen.

They are cruel and unreasonable people and I would not want my child to be with them.

the most important person in all this is your son too many adults demand rights to see children with complete disregard for their feelings just because these people are related to him does not give them the right to treat you and him like this,

Hi wont. I'm so sorry you are having such a tough time. I'm also appalled that the nursery allowed your ex-ILs to take your DS out of nursery. You should have gone straight to the police when they kidnapped/abducted your DS (because that's what it is). Their behaviour is outrageous, not to mention illegal, immoral and completely reprehensible. Why do they for one moment think that you would let somebody who is capable of abducting your DS and threaten you have contact with them?

Good luck. I hope you have good support and advice. Try Citizens' Advice Bureau.
I hope you can have a happy and peaceful Christmas.

The thing is they have raised a son who has commited domestic / emotional abuse against a woman and his child , that to me is an epic fail on their part . If they had anything about them whatsoever they would have been super supportive of you from the get go and ashamed of the son they had raised . They havent and they clearly are not , therefore they forgo any rights they may believe they have in regards their grandchildren .
No they may not see their grandchild at Christmas as it would be detrimental to him and as a responsible and loving parent you are left with no option .

lily

If the gp's had the fathers consent to collect the child they have committed no offence.

Yes it piss poor behaviour yes its enough to never have contact with them again or let them near your child whilst you are in a position to stop them but no its not a crime.

I'm so glad to hear you're not going to allow contact. These people should never have contact with your child again. Sockreturningpixie's advice is good, some excellent tips there.