Buggies must be folded by law, if a wheelchair user wishes to board

[BerniceBroadside]

I know this can be a hot topic so thought I'd share that stagecoach have new signs on their buses stating that buggies must be folded by law if a wheelchair user wishes to board. Let's hope it's actually enforced.

I live abroad and used buggies (mostly small Maclaren type, was also an avid sling user) on buses daily for years. The buses had two wheelchair/buggy spaces minimum, mostly three. It was clear to everyone that wheelchair users had first priority, and I would always move, but I can't remember ever having to fold - I would move to one of the other spaces or, sometimes, stand in the space between the spaces iyswim (which admittedly might not have been possible with a big pram). This discussion always bemuses me a little, because surely part of the answer is to provide multiple spaces - to actually design and purchase buses according to the needs of all the people who use them. And also provide services at a decent frequency, so it isn't so bad for a buggy user who might have to get off to make room, but that is probably another thread.
That said, while i appreciate it must be an utter PITA to have to practically dismantle your buggy/pram or get off the bus, it really isn't equivalent to being in a wheelchair, and having no other option at all, and I am surprised anyone would think it is.

Now lifts - don't get me started. Much too few and far between, and I can't count the number of times I saw people with bikes or suitcases, or sometimes without either of those things, barge into the only available lift ahead of wheelchair users because they were there first. I could usually, and would often, lug the buggy up and down stairs if I needed to.

I think it should be whoever was on it first stays whether it be a wheelchair user or a buggy - chucking someone off a bus because they aren't the right passenger doesn't fit right either.
Please go back and read what my daughter wrote.
It's not chucking someone off a bus because they don't fit the demographic, it's chucking someone off a bus if they don't make reasonable adjustments to accommodate somebody who uses a wheelchair whilst in the space that is designated for those who use wheelchairs. They are very, very different things.

jaded angel I couldn't agree with you more.

This thread illustrates perfectly why there needs to be laws, signs and enforcement of what should be bloody obvious. But some people will whine and whinge and come up with all sorts of bollocks to justify the fact that they are selfish and can't be arsed.

I am disabled with serious mobility issues, back issues, strength issues, only use of one arm, the whole kaboodle. Sometimes I have had to use a wheelchair, most times I have to use a walking frame, always I have to have something to support me. Currently I have a 9 month old so use the pushchair as my support. If I were on the bus and a wheelchair user needed the space I'd fold. End of. I might cry inside. I might cry outside if I'm having a bad day. I may suffer later on for over exerting myself. But I'd still fold.

Why should this thread be moved to SN? So that the issue can be discussed by those who are already thoroughly aware of the difficulties involved with disabilities/public transport?

It needs to be as visible as possible, because perhaps, just perhaps, some people might read this thread and realise that they've been unreasonable about the wheelchair space.

Life is fairly inconvenient for parents of young children, in a lot of ways. No-one likes being inconvenienced. Everyone would prefer that it was someone else having to deal with that inconvenience. But the bottom line is that everyone can't have a perfectly easy life all of the time - sometimes people have to just suck it up and get on with it.

Many people with disabilities are inconvenienced every single day of their lives. All wheelchair-users will find themselves inconvenienced on a regular basis. If they aren't given absolute priority over a facility that we, as a society, have recognised that they should have, in order to redress some of the imbalance caused by circumstances beyond their control, then all of the inconvenience falls on their shoulders.

There are, for the millionth time, an awful lot more buggy users than wheelchair users. If a wheelchair user always has to wait for a buggy-free bus, then that wheelchair user will always be the one who is inconvenienced. If every buggy user accepted, gracefully, the odd occasion when they have to give way for a wheelchair user, then the inconvenience is spread around.

That's what equality is about. It's not about eradicating every tiny little bit of difficulty from the lives of people with disabilities - it's about asking everyone else in society to give a tiny little bit, so that that all the giving doesn't fall to one, marginalised group.

Life still isn't equal for many people with disabilities. They still have to deal with difficulties on a daily basis. So how is it possibly fair for those who are able-bodied to argue that they shouldn't have to suffer even occasional difficulties in order to even things out?

And the bottom line is that anyone who refuses to give up the wheelchair space is assisting in the ongoing discrimination against people with disabilities. They are refusing to make a reasonable adjustment to their own circumstances in order to allow someone to access a facility.

I just want to say something on here.

I have been known to use the disabled toilet on occasion when out with DD- I did at my local Tesco.

I can't fit her pushchair into a regular cubicle with me. Believe me, I tried. I was on my own so no one to watch DD. I didn't feel comfortable leaving her outside the cubicle as I never know how long I'm going to be. If I need to go to the toilet, I need to go NOW, waiting till I get home is not an option.

At Asda, I use the family room, I think most Asdas have them now. My local shopping centre also has family rooms, and one had regular sized cubicles with doors that open outwards- meaning you can fit a buggy in there. But in the absence of those options, I didn't see much alternative other than to use the disabled toilet.

Sorry if I inconvenienced anyone by using it.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could avoid using it in the future? Once DD is walking I will get her out of the pushchair and bring her into the cubicle with me (and pray the pushchair is still there when I come out, I live in that sort of area!), I just can't juggle holding a baby and going to the toilet!

Chronically you yourself have a need for the facility. You have no need to make other arrangements.

Kungfu but yer discrimination' genst mummies init rolly eyed emoticon required

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could avoid using it in the future? Once DD is walking I will get her out of the pushchair and bring her into the cubicle with me (and pray the pushchair is still there when I come out, I live in that sort of area!), I just can't juggle holding a baby and going to the toilet!

blogs.babycenter.com/wp-content/gallery/babycenter-slide-show/baby-keeper.jpg

Neither the baby in the pushchair nor the person in the wheelchair can walk - why does the person in the wheelchair automatically get priority?

Yes, I have Crohn's.

However I did get a few raised eyebrows when I came out of the disabled toilet with the pushchair.

And I do fail to see how other mums in the same situation but minus the Crohn's are supposed to manage, other than use the disabled toilet.

(And for what it's worth, when I don't have DD I wouldn't use the disabled toilet unless there was a huge queue and no one would let me go in front and I was in real danger of having an accident, I know that mobility needs trump mine!)

How often is it likely to happen to you really? Once? Twice? Never? We have a very small window of time when they are small and its difficult to fold the pushchair, people in wheelchairs will face the difficulties you are moaning about all their lives.

Just get off the bus, the driver will give you another ticket.

Ive never in 19 years of having children had to get off a bus , but if it happened tomorrow, and the next day and the day after that I would just get off. After all I only have this double pushchair/space inconvenience for another 6-12 months, then one/both will be walking.

Please tell me that's not real, Rodney? I can't see DD submitting to that somehow!

I've used disabled toilets when I've had the buggy. Obviously not if anyone else for whom the toilets are actually designed was waiting but as you say, I can't figure out what else to do.

Ooh lemme see, Radge.

Maybe because the person in the pushchair is a BABY and thus PORTABLE.

Unless you're suggesting adults unable to walk shoukd be transferred by their carer or perhaps the driver?

Ridiculous comment.

I have chosen to get off buses rather than attempt to fold my monstrous pushchair up. Not the end of the world at all.

Radge a baby can be lifted out of their pram and held. Its not actually very easy to do that with an older child or adult.

Dawndonna's DD - you are a very eloquent young woman who can put her arguments across clearly and persuasively. Any university would be lucky to have you :)

This thread is so depressing. I can't believe that we have to keep having the same conversation over and over again and still people don't understand. I wonder if slapping on fines to anyone who was a bit of a git about moving would help>