Buggies must be folded by law, if a wheelchair user wishes to board

[BerniceBroadside]

I know this can be a hot topic so thought I'd share that stagecoach have new signs on their buses stating that buggies must be folded by law if a wheelchair user wishes to board. Let's hope it's actually enforced.

[Retropear]

I haven't wanted to or been prepared to break any law.You are twisting again.

[GobbySadcase]

Spikey if you're on twitter pm me, have just rt something from jaded.

[DizzyZebra]

I dont think amything needd to be done tbh. People just need to suck it up.

The only people i think need covering are the people mentioned with invisible disabilities, and the people where the person pushing the buggy is the disabled person.

That could be easily sorted in the form of some sort of blue badge type card.

Able bodied parebts dont need provisions made for them. They need to get a grip and take responsibility for themselves.

If buses are moving off before passengers are properly seated and it is posing a danger btw, you should report the driver and the company should address it. Im sure that is already covered. So complain.

[Binkyridesagain]

I'm tired, tired of fighting to have a life and I'm only the carer and I've only be doing this for the past 5 years.

fighting for treatment for her, for equipment, for adaptions, for a blue badge, for access to a toilet, for the right to sit at a table for a coffee in our chosen shop, to go down a street, it never seems to end every bloody day its a fight.

I'm tired of it, I just want to enable her to live a life to the best of her abilities without endless discrimination, bigotry, entitlement, resentment, jealousy and selfishness.

[AmberLeaf]

that when a thread like this comes along, I would have thought it would be the perfect time for someone to come along from MNHQ, and rather than simply say, 'we don't stand for any disabilist posts' to cite the campaign and put forward a stance - ie yes it is hard for parents with small children on public transport - BUT the wheelchair space on buses is for wheelchairs ( or sn buggies) and therefore if anyone has to fold, then it has to be the buggy, and that is that

Yes. That would be brilliant. I really don't see the point of TIMC if MNHQ isn't willing to make such a statement.

Thinking about it, these are just the sort of things that MN TIMC campaign could get behind - there are so many threads about buggies on buses, parent parking spaces, children making noise in public spaces, children in trollies in supermarket etc - all of them often descending into a discussion where people bring up their children's disabilities, and other posters throw their hands up in the air and it descends into anger and hurt

Campaigns about sn trollies in supermarkets, why buggies should fold on buses, etc with rl examples would be positive practical things that the campaign could get behind

Backing the points in the TIMC campaign is really the very least MNHQ could do on these kinds of threads.

If they won't, then what has really changed?

[GobbySadcase]

Once again we hear your message that you'd have been prepared to break the law because of your personal circumstances and that those wanting the law enforced are gleeful.

We get it.

Even though the reasons for wanting the law enforced are to preserve our loved ones' health and dignity, your chosen circumstances trump that legal right.

We heard you.

[Retropear]

Then Gobby you too are ignoring posts and twisting posts for your own ends.I have just illustrated my stance which is well documented to Dizzy.

[SpikeyChristmasTree]

So MNHQ are clearly just saying that they are taking action re:goading so that we will shut up and go away? Big mistake.

[GobbySadcase]

I disagree. I think Amber has summarised perfectly.

[Retropear]

The issue is Dizzy although happy at one stage I couldn't.Other mothers and grandparents may well experience the same.With a law I questioned what would happen to them and made suggestions as to what could be done.

[Retropear]

Erm just to point out bar the odd deletion like others I have had nothing happen to me behind the scenes re goading.

And Amber that post bares no resemblance to me what so ever.You are still continuously twisting my posts.

[DizzyZebra]

Retro if youre not refusing to fold then whats the issue? If youre happy to fold then there is no issue.

I personally dont see that (most) buses need adapting further for buggys. The current system on most of them is perfectly adequate and easy to grasp.

In five years btw i have never had to vacate a bus for a wheelchair user. I think ive seen three wheelchair users on buses.

A far bigger issue and annoyance for me getting on buses is other mothers with buggies being unwilling to help/make space. I had to let three busses pass last week one after the other, one was full so fair play. One of the other two had two women with empty buggies, wtf, and one had one woman taking up the whole bay with one buggy. It wasnt even big, she just couldnt be arsed to sit properly.

The only person who was willing to make space and help was a schoolboy (11/12 yo at a guess).

I didnt want the hassle of folding with a newborn and a two year old though so i cant complain about waiting for the next one. But at least i have that choice.

[GobbySadcase]

Let me know if you do, we can add my vodka usage to it.

[JulieJingleBellsMumsnet]

@AmberLeaf

We do welcome debate but there comes a point when we will delete a thread that has turned into a bun fight, whether there's 10 posts or 999. We're asking you to stick to our talk guidelines or we will delete this thread. In short, comment on the post, not the poster

It isn't a bunfight. MNHQ tells people to do the whole 'educate' thing in response to these sort of threads, we do and some learn a thing or two because of our posts, which is great and makes posting worthwhile, but then some people still continue posting in willful ignorance, we carry on explaining things, but it does reach a point where you wonder if it is deliberate winding up. It is a big ask to expect people to not feel upset by some of the attitudes displayed on threads like these.

I also wonder what MNHQ is basing their judgement of whether or not something is disablist on?

For example;

but we don't consider 'What about me? What am I supposed to do?' as posts which break our talk guidelines or disablist

Someone who says the above once could be considered to have no experience of the issues/ignorant to the facts/asking for advice as to what to do. But if someone says those things and gets many replies explaining things and giving suggestions as to how to deal with those problems, but still carries on with the wah wah wah posts, at what point do you accept that it is either goading or not wanting to understand? To vociferously argue that you as an able bodied parent of able bodied children shouldn't have to show any consideration to people with disabilities is disablist. It just is and I don't understand how you think it isn't.

I have found the lukewarm, non committal response to this from MNHQ incongruent with the This Is My Campaign.

Hi, Amberleaf.

We have looked through the whole thread more than once. As always, we look at threads and posts on a case by case basis. There are a fair amount of 'what about me?' type posts and we've looked at them all. We can't tell you what other action we've taken but there's always things that go on behind the scenes if we think that someone is posting to inflame/goad.

As we've already posted, we do not expect people to 'educate' others. We are aware of how tough life is already and we do not ask this of you.

[hazeyjane]

How could I forget about disabled toilets.....

[IamInvisible]

I'm angry too. I don't have a disabled child, I am the disabled one in my family.

I'm the one who gets shoved out of the way despite being in two sticks, or jumped in front of going to a lift. The other day in Lidl, I went to pick up a magazine, DS1 was already at the checkout in the queue with the rest of the shopping, and a woman saw me hobbling back to the till. She ran down the last bit of the aisle and rammed her trolley into my hip in a desperate bid to get to the till first. DS1(19) went absolutely mad. I have severe problems with my hips and pelvis. Was her need to get to the till so great that she had to hurt a disabled person in the process?

I like MN and I like visiting it, however I really hate the way they deal with threads like this. They need to grow some bollocks once and for all imo. It is not fair that disabled toilet threads, wheelchair space threads and P&T space v blue badge space threads leave the disabled and their carers feeling so battered and bruised because of the ignorant feckers on here.

[hazeyjane]

Thinking about it, these are just the sort of things that MN TIMC campaign could get behind - there are so many threads about buggies on buses, parent parking spaces, children making noise in public spaces, children in trollies in supermarket etc - all of them often descending into a discussion where people bring up their children's disabilities, and other posters throw their hands up in the air and it descends into anger and hurt.

Campaigns about sn trollies in supermarkets, why buggies should fold on buses, etc with rl examples would be positive practical things that the campaign could get behind.

[Misspixietrix]

Gobby :( thankfully DM was okay in the toileting area today. She could have easily have needed to go too. Which would have been problematic considering the disabled loo is on the 1st floor.

[hazeyjane]

I am glad it has been pointed out there is no bullying happening on this thread in the direction of Retropear, although can see that a few of her posts making accusations of bullying still stand. It annoys me no end when someone resorts calling people bullies when they are having a perfectly reasonable disagreement.

I think the thing that annoys me about the This Is My Child campaign is a) how it fizzled out into nothing, despite many discussions on the sn boards about the form it should take and the ideas of things like myth busting etc. And b) that when a thread like this comes along, I would have thought it would be the perfect time for someone to come along from MNHQ, and rather than simply say, 'we don't stand for any disabilist posts' to cite the campaign and put forward a stance - ie yes it is hard for parents with small children on public transport - BUT the wheelchair space on buses is for wheelchairs ( or sn buggies) and therefore if anyone has to fold, then it has to be the buggy, and that is that.

I wonder whether it is time for MNHQ to have someone who could be a kind of disability spokesperson, because it seems to me that when MNHQ come up against something like this they are a little 'rabbit caught in the headlights'

[SpikeyChristmasTree]

Thank you, it has been a while now, but he was really active in disability matters, chairman of the local access group etc. My parents were both disabled before I was born, so all I ever knew was how bloody hard life was for them. We have come a long way since 1980, but not far enough and unfortunately some attitudes have obviously not kept pace with the law.

[GobbySadcase]

Tweet me Jaded if you think of anything