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AIBU?

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Original poster

Anti-gay views in the workplace

171 replies

VenusOfWillendorf · 16/12/2013 15:35

Last week, I went to lunch at our work cafeteria with some colleagues. We were chatting about what we had done over the weekend, and one of them said that he has participated in protest march against gay marriage in a city about three hours from where we live. I was quite shocked by this, and said I needed to finish something back in the office, and left the table. It was about halfway through the meal (I hadn't finished eating, neither had they).
My boss came to me in the afternoon and said that I'd come across as rude. I said that I found his views offensive and couldn't continue eating there. She said he's entitled to do as he likes at the weekend, and that I should perhaps apologise.
I don't agree with her at all. Am I being unreasonable??

[Some background - the colleague in question I know to be quite religious (he's Christian, but I don't know which church). I am not gay myself (though my brother is) and can't stand any form of homophobia].

OP posts:
friday16 · 17/12/2013 09:38

Sitting there and listening to it (he'd started a run-down of what was involved, long drive etc), made me feel like I was accepting it as a reasonable thing to do

It's difficult, though.

Suppose you worked in Scotland, and one of your colleagues were Catholic. The Scottish Catholic church is vehemently opposed to same-sex marriage, not much happier about civil partnerships, and has engaged in some fairly blatantly homophobic pronouncements over the past few years. Nuance is not on the agenda.

If conversation turned to what happened at the weekend, many people might (quite reasonably) say they attended mass, and that the traffic was bad on the way, and they had trouble parking near the church. I think that if you at that point stood up and walked off, not wanting to be accepting of it as a reasonable thing to do, then many people would not say you had the moral high ground. But the Catholic Church is Scotland passes most of the tests for being a homophobic organisation, certainly if your definition of homophobia extends to opposition to same-sex marriage. "AIBU for refusing to have lunch with Catholic colleagues because I disapprove of Catholicism" is likely to be quite a stormy thread.

turtleytwostep · 17/12/2013 09:53

Whether they like it or not it's legal now, and you were not in the wrong. You didn't insult criticise or argue so i don't see what you did wrong?

turtleytwostep · 17/12/2013 09:56

Persecuting people is wrong whatever the reason!

MaidOfStars · 17/12/2013 10:04

Friday You've articulated a thought that was gaining momentum in my head. There are many activities a work colleague could outline that would imply certain political positions. Would participation in a pro-life rally imply a desire to remove a woman rights? Would attendance at a BNP meeting imply racism?

friday16 · 17/12/2013 10:18

Persecuting people is wrong whatever the reason!

And?

There's a long and ugly tradition of anti-gay prejudice in society, some of it driven by the Catholic church.

There's a long and ugly tradition of anti-Catholic prejudice in society, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland. This is nothing to do with their stance on homosexuality, and the people engaged in the anti-Catholic bigotry are probably at least, if not more, homophobic (I doubt Ian Paisley was to be found out on Gay Pride marches).

If you are polite to a Catholic, are you enabling homophobia? Is it OK to, say, sack Catholics from employment on the grounds that they are members of a homophobic organisation? Should Catholics be forced into "don't ask, don't tell"?

friday16 · 17/12/2013 10:19

Would attendance at a BNP meeting imply racism?

Yes. Is it anything to do with your employer? Until you start committing overtly racist acts on the premises, no it isn't.

noblegiraffe · 17/12/2013 10:20

This is why people shouldn't talk about politics or religion with their work colleagues.

DreamingofSummer · 17/12/2013 10:22

Friday being anti-religion and especially anti-Catholic is the last respectable prejudice.

According to this thread, sincere beliefs = bigotry but anti-religious discrimination isn't.

noblegiraffe · 17/12/2013 10:27

There's a step up from believing gay marriage to be wrong to going out on an anti-gay marriage march and seeking to having it banned.

ParcelFancy · 17/12/2013 10:34

The Scottish Catholic analogy isn't quite right, though, is it?

People will have many reasons for being Catholic and may disagree with the Catholic Church in Scotland's institutional homophobia.

One can talk about taint by association, but it's in a different league from going on a single-issue march where there can be no doubt the person is actively promoting the one issue.

MrsSquirrel · 17/12/2013 10:39

But the OP wasn't discriminating against her colleague. She removed herself from a situation in which she felt uncomfortable. The colleague was apparently surprised by her actions, but was not disadvantaged in any way, as afar as I can see.

friday16 · 17/12/2013 10:43

but it's in a different league from going on a single-issue march where there can be no doubt the person is actively promoting the one issue.

So people can be Catholic, so long as they disassociate themselves from the things that are considered unpalatable by their colleagues? Isn't that just the Test Acts, "windows into men's souls" and the rest? Good Catholics and Bad Catholics?

People's politics and religion are only of relevance in the workplace when they bring them into the workplace and start causing problems. Simply stating that you attended an event some of your colleagues may regard as distasteful just doesn't get remotely close to that threshold.

CeliaFate · 17/12/2013 10:50

friday16 I'm having trouble understanding your point.
Attending a BNP rally would be enough for me not to want to associate with a colleague.
As would attending an anti-gay marriage march.
As would attending a pro-life demonstration.

Because all of those things involves bigotry, intolerance, inequality and oppression. Views which I find wholly unacceptable.

I have a good friend who is gay and is Catholic. How he conflates the two I don't know, it is his dilemma. If he raised the subject with me, I'd articulate my feelings on it. But being a Catholic, or belonging to any religion, is very different to actively marching to suppress other people's rights.

CalamitouslyWrong · 17/12/2013 10:55

The vast majority of Scottish Catholics I know absolutely do not agree with the church's position on gay marriage, or it's general homophobia.

They don't follow the church's contraception advice either, and few of them abstained from sex before marriage.

They all have many critical things to say about the church.

I'm not actually convinced that the Catholic Church adequately represents the views of Catholics, any more than I am that the current government reflects the views of the British.

friday16 · 17/12/2013 11:06

Attending a BNP rally would be enough for me not to want to associate with a colleague.

And if he was your manager and you refused to accept his instructions on that basis, you'd be sacked. The ET would laugh at your claim of constructive dismissal.

CeliaFate · 17/12/2013 11:14

And if he was your manager and you refused to accept his instructions on that basis, you'd be sacked. The ET would laugh at your claim of constructive dismissal

Nobody's said anything about refusing instructions. IF he was manager and he was a racist twat then he'd keep it out of the workplace. If not, I'd go through the appropriate channels.

But I'd be damned if I sat next to him at lunchtime while he peddled his vile views in public. It's completely different!

MaidOfStars · 17/12/2013 11:17

Attending a BNP rally would be enough for me not to want to associate with a colleague.
As would attending an anti-gay marriage march.
As would attending a pro-life demonstration.

I completely get this. I would find it hard to want to be mates with anyone involved in such activities. However, these activities are NOT illegal, and declaring your participation in them does not (in my opinion) amount to being discriminatory in the workplace.

CeliaFate · 17/12/2013 11:19

Absolutely not illegal. To clarify, I meant "associate with a colleague" to mean eating lunch at the table with them, listening to their views.

Nataleejah · 17/12/2013 11:26

I avoid any discussions on gay subject. Whatever your opinion is, you risk either offending someone or making a fool of yourself.

MaidOfStars · 17/12/2013 11:31

I avoid any discussions on gay subject. Whatever your opinion is, you risk either offending someone or making a fool of yourself

How could the opinion "I believe that civil society should offer equal rights to all people, regardless of sexual orientation" possibly offend anyone or look stupid?

BuffyxSummers · 17/12/2013 11:33

If I was sat at that table, I would feel that I had to leave that discussion due to his reference to homophobic activity. If I'm gay and feel I have to leave a work environment due to references to homophobic activity, then surely that is discrimination? The same way if I sat there and said I went to an anti catholic event and he felt he had to leave the table.

Nataleejah · 17/12/2013 11:39

[b]How could the opinion "I believe that civil society should offer equal rights to all people, regardless of sexual orientation" possibly offend anyone or look stupid?[/b]
All depends on who you are talking to, for example, your very old fashioned deeply religious grandparents.

Kerosene · 17/12/2013 11:42

Absolutely not illegal. But freedom of speech doesn't mean you get to avoid repercussions for the things you say, as various abusive twitterers are finding out. If you use your freedom of speech to advocate for anti-miscegenation laws at a BNP rally, you can't then get shirty when other people use their freedom of speech to say they find that unacceptable and no longer wish to associate with you on a personal basis.

bumbumsmummy · 17/12/2013 11:45

Stand your ground you were tolerant and you said nothing but you made your excuses and left end of

Your boss is BU to expect you to apologise

MaidOfStars · 17/12/2013 11:46

How could the opinion "I believe that civil society should offer equal rights to all people, regardless of sexual orientation" possibly offend anyone or look stupid?
All depends on who you are talking to, for example, your very old fashioned deeply religious grandparents
How would it offend them?