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Original poster

Anti-gay views in the workplace

171 replies

VenusOfWillendorf · 16/12/2013 15:35

Last week, I went to lunch at our work cafeteria with some colleagues. We were chatting about what we had done over the weekend, and one of them said that he has participated in protest march against gay marriage in a city about three hours from where we live. I was quite shocked by this, and said I needed to finish something back in the office, and left the table. It was about halfway through the meal (I hadn't finished eating, neither had they).
My boss came to me in the afternoon and said that I'd come across as rude. I said that I found his views offensive and couldn't continue eating there. She said he's entitled to do as he likes at the weekend, and that I should perhaps apologise.
I don't agree with her at all. Am I being unreasonable??

[Some background - the colleague in question I know to be quite religious (he's Christian, but I don't know which church). I am not gay myself (though my brother is) and can't stand any form of homophobia].

OP posts:
monicalewinski · 16/12/2013 22:56

I totally agree Marina - it was the calls for getting him disciplined I was on about.

The boss should have jumped on it straight away and nipped it in the bud, I totally agree that it is his responsibility to behave in a decent way and he didn't, but he has not done enough to warrant anything more than a slap on the wrist.

He obviously has his beliefs and is odious, but the boss is 100 times worse for effectively condoning discriminatory behaviour.

I get that my use of 'wrong' has come across differently to how I meant though, I certainly didn't mean he was a stand-up bloke!

neunundneunzigluftballons · 16/12/2013 23:01

Monica I get what you are saying now. I misunderstood and I agree with you. He did wrong and the boss effectively condoned his homophobia in the workplace. I think though the boss should have had the conversation she had with the OP with the work colleague all things being right and actually highlighted that he had done wrong.

MurderOfGoths · 16/12/2013 23:02

Curious if the boss asked the bloke to apologise for offending the OP?

monicalewinski · 16/12/2013 23:10

Sorry for being unclear - it was clear in my head!

Exactly what you just said is what I was getting at, neun. If the boss doesn't come down on it straight away it becomes acceptable, which it's not.

I actually think the OP did exactly the right thing too, just getting up and walking off - you just can't argue with that and she gave him no oxygen to carry on (probably awkward silence all round at the table).

Phew!

neunundneunzigluftballons · 16/12/2013 23:52

Sorry for being unclear - it was clear in my head

It always is and then you are left wondering can not one else read. Grin

neunundneunzigluftballons · 16/12/2013 23:52

No one even

PedantMarina · 16/12/2013 23:54

Ooh, good point, MurderofGoths - I'd love to hear an update about that, OP.

TheBigJessie · 17/12/2013 00:29

I think the OP was very restrained and totally justified in leaving.

The boss was out of line. If the bloke has some measure of freedom to speak, then everyone else has exactly the same freedom to move away.

As for him, I have one piece of advice. It's fine to lead a homophobic lifestyle in private, but you shouldn't flaunt it in public. Don't shove it in our faces!

Or there's "don't ask, don't tell [people about your homophobia]".

sykadelic15 · 17/12/2013 00:31

If all he said was what he did on the w/end then yes, I think you over-reacted. If he went on a vile diatribe, or the others high fived or anything that implied anyone agreed, then you didn't overreact.

Seeing the boss was there, after the lunch I would have had a chat with the boss about how the conversation made me uncomfortable and explained why. You can't stop him from talking about his view, any more than he can stop you from talking about your sibling.

You could ask for a meeting with him and your boss as mediator explaining why you found his comment offensive. If he knows your sibling is gay then he was being rude on purpose (he could have just said "a church function", he didn't have to say what it was for) if he didn't, it's a good time to educate him.

At work I try and err on the side of caution and in this instance I would ensure the boss knows your situation.

neunundneunzigluftballons · 17/12/2013 00:47

Syk the OP's brother has nothing to do with this. If someone at that table was gay and nobody knows for definite that there was not someone gay there, they have the right to work in a place that protects them from discrimination. Both the man who made the comment and his boss appear to have not ensured that took place. That said murder might be right and the boss may have said something to both of them.

DoubleLifeIsALifeOfSorts · 17/12/2013 01:14

It's your bosses reaction which is the problem, not yours.

Birdsgottafly · 17/12/2013 02:21

"He obviously has his beliefs and is odious, but the boss is 100 times worse for effectively condoning discriminatory behaviour."

If all he did was protest against Gay people being able to get married, then his views are backed up by our society.

Gay marriage is illegal and unless everyone else around that table had been on a "Pro Gay Marriage" March, then you all agree with the present Law and your colleague.

As in, "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".

His views are the views of the Law makers, most Church leaders and the public who have been asked if they want Gay marriage to be allowed.

So he can speak about this and his involvement, what he cannot do is go any further and suggest that the Law takes a step back and criminalise Homosexuality (and then make unsavoury comments about Gay people), for instance.

You should of asked him what aspect it is that he objects to, then you may of been given a reason to complain about him, or put good points forward.

redshifter · 17/12/2013 04:27

I'm not sure about this.

The man didn't do anything illegal over the weekend.

He has religious beliefs and religion is a protected characteristic.

I am very uncomfortable with some aspects of the E & D laws.

Toadinthehole · 17/12/2013 05:54

I reckon you, him and your boss all need to try being a bit less offended. He went on a march against gay marriage. Big deal. You left the table, perhaps a bit abruptly. Big deal.

Given that time is not on the side of people opposed to gay marriage, I don't see why their views are anything to get upset about. It's also a virtue not to allow people whose views you disagree with upset you, and I reckon somewhat intolerant to believe otherwise.

brettgirl2 · 17/12/2013 06:33

I agree with toadshifter. He is entitled to his view, you are entitled to yours and to leave the table. Your boss I think needs to forget about it. You will meet people at work whose views you disagree with, its part of it. Take your kindle to lunch and eat on your own, that's my advice until you find some friends you want to spend time with.

BohemianGirl · 17/12/2013 06:47

Just because someone disagrees with gay marriage does not make them homophobic. I don't know how you would reconcile my cousin who is gay, but a devout Catholic, who is vehemently anti-gay-marriage. Civil partnerships yes, marriage no.

ItsIgginningToLookALotLikeXmas · 17/12/2013 07:11

I think if bosses are going to take it upon themselves to get involved in every act of "rudeness" between colleagues, they are going to be very, very busy.

NotMissMiranda · 17/12/2013 07:19

Actually BohemianGirl I think it does make them homophobic, they want to deny gay people the right to get married, which heterosexuals have, therefore they are discriminating against them on the grounds of their sexuality....what would you call it?

Mimishimi · 17/12/2013 07:19

It depends on how he said it, the context in which which the topic came up and also on how you left the table. If he was merely responding to someone asking him what he did on the weekend, he said he attended a rally against gay marriage and left it that and if you then dramatically got up from the table immediately and flounced off then, yes, I think your boss is right. In the same way she would be right to tell off someone if a colleague told another that they attended a gay Mardi Gras parade and to show their disapproval that personflounced off as well. It does not look professional and makes it look like you can't cope with others opionions if they don't concur with yours.

If however, this person was making a point of continually bringing it up without being asked, used derogatory terms to express their disapproval of gays, and was generally being a prat then no, YANBU.

Mimishimi · 17/12/2013 07:21

Opinions sorry..

Mimishimi · 17/12/2013 07:29

Also, did he specifically call it a 'rally against gay marriage' or some other name , less obviously anti-gay, which you knew to be this rally?

Original poster
VenusOfWillendorf · 17/12/2013 09:02

Thanks for all the opinions. It had been turning through my mind over the weekend, and it's good to hear what other people think.

I've known the man in question for about 12 years, though I've rarely ever had a non-work related converstation with him. He worked in another dept until about a year ago when he joined my group (which has only 8 people, though the company itself is huge and employs thousands). I don't know if he is homophobic or anti-LGBT; he's never brought up the topic. I don't think that being anti same-sex marriage makes him necessarily so (in much the same way as I don't think that being anti-women priests makes someone necessarily anti-women). He is of course entitled to his own poing of view, however much I might dislike it. He did just say what he did (and he called it a anti-gay marriage march, I don't know whether it had a 'proper' name or not) - he didn't start off on some rant. I didn't 'flounce' off, I politely excused myself by saying I need to finish some work and I left. But it probably was abrupt given none of us had finished eating.

As far as I know my boss said nothing to him (and I don't think that she should), her view on it to me was that he looked taken aback and a bit shocked when I left and I think she probably meant more 'smooth things over' than make a formal apology as I guess she doesn't want any ill-feeling in our small group. I said I wouldn't bring it up again, unless he did and she left it at that. But I did wonder if I WBU by not doing so.

I don't think that I WBU by walking away, I don't see what else I could do. Sitting there and listening to it (he'd started a run-down of what was involved, long drive etc), made me feel like I was accepting it as a reasonable thing to do - which I do not. But I did not want to get into a debate on it in the cafeteria, which would certainly have ended up being quite heated on my side.

OP posts:
struggling100 · 17/12/2013 09:10

In my view, you did the right thing. I don't believe that anti-gay views are in any way acceptable. Like racism and misogyny, they simply have no place in the modern world. It heartens me that there are people like you who are willing to take a stand to ensure that such opinions cannot be expressed in the workplace or social situations without the speaker being called out.

monicalewinski · 17/12/2013 09:33

FWIW, I think the way you acted was spot on.

You were polite and adult, you made a point without needing to resort to drama.

It is entirely up to you if you want to make it a bigger deal or not - everyone has their 'line' and everyone's line is in a different place, if you are content with how it is now then that is fine.

If it were me, I would leave it now and carry on as before - the point has been made and everyone should now have an awareness as to what is acceptable.

CeliaFate · 17/12/2013 09:37

Yanbu and you should not apologise for walking away.

He wasn't afraid to air his bigoted, homophobic crap views to you, why should you apologise if he was offended?

If he brings it up again, I would say, "I appreciate your right to your own views, but I don't share them so don't want to talk about it with you."