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Original poster

Anti-gay views in the workplace

171 replies

VenusOfWillendorf · 16/12/2013 15:35

Last week, I went to lunch at our work cafeteria with some colleagues. We were chatting about what we had done over the weekend, and one of them said that he has participated in protest march against gay marriage in a city about three hours from where we live. I was quite shocked by this, and said I needed to finish something back in the office, and left the table. It was about halfway through the meal (I hadn't finished eating, neither had they).
My boss came to me in the afternoon and said that I'd come across as rude. I said that I found his views offensive and couldn't continue eating there. She said he's entitled to do as he likes at the weekend, and that I should perhaps apologise.
I don't agree with her at all. Am I being unreasonable??

[Some background - the colleague in question I know to be quite religious (he's Christian, but I don't know which church). I am not gay myself (though my brother is) and can't stand any form of homophobia].

OP posts:
MaidOfStars · 16/12/2013 18:44

....it was implied, not explicit.

CustardoPaidforIDSsYFronts · 16/12/2013 18:44

well done op btw

thank god for people like you

CustardoPaidforIDSsYFronts · 16/12/2013 18:45

i think mentioning you went on a march against gay marriage is explicit

MaidOfStars · 16/12/2013 18:48

Ex

neunundneunzigluftballons · 16/12/2013 18:48

Thanks newt thing is some of my best friends are really gay and not in that thinly veiled way people use that phrase to hide their homophobia Smile

MaidOfStars · 16/12/2013 18:50

Fucking phone.

Explicit that he's homophobic? Yep.

Explicitly homophobic bigotry leading to discrimination in the workplace? Not in my opinion. As I've said, I'd gave wheedled enough out of him to get him sacked.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/12/2013 18:54

I do not agree with man's views. I also disagree with those that would try to get him fired.

Oblomov · 16/12/2013 19:11

If someone says things whilst they are at lunch, at not at work, does that make a difference? Does it matter that they are at their desk or in the canteen?
He doesn't agree with gay marriage. It's not illegal to hold that view is it?
On what grounds could he be punished/ disciplined?
What if someone starts a conversation about sex? Dogging? Hating Man U/Chelsea/Arsenal?

It's hard to know what you are and are not allowed to talk about, at work.

BuffyxSummers · 16/12/2013 19:13

No it's not hard. Don't talk negatively about things that might make someone feel discriminated against for things that aren't their choice. Sexuality, disability, race, gender. Things covered by the equality act.

monicalewinski · 16/12/2013 19:26

He hasn't done anything wrong imo - he was asked a direct question which he answered. OP was offended by the implication of what he had done and the view he holds, so politely excused herself and walked away. This should have made an impression on the man that his views are not acceptable to OP, so now the onus is on him not to make any more of it.

What has made it into an issue is the boss - by going to OP and suggesting that she apologise, she has spectacularly overlooked the obvious that she is requesting OP apologise for reasonable offence to a protected E & D characteristic.

OP will obviously not apologise, man does not need to either, but what boss should have done is had a quiet word with the man to point out that 'whilst he is perfectly entitled to hold his own views, he must not promulgate them in the workplace due to E & D policy' and that would have been that - everyone being treated like the adults they are.

It is all down to the boss now, and if she insists on an apology from OP, there implies tolerance of bigotry in the workplace, which is against the law.

With respect to what you are allowed to talk about at work, you can talk about whatever you want - however, if anyone is offended by what you are saying (and it is one of the protected characteristics) then their offence trumps your intent - this can even be someone not in the conversation, just walking by.

MaidOfStars · 16/12/2013 19:32

Don't talk negatively about things that might make someone feel discriminated against for things that aren't their choice. Sexuality, disability, race, gender. Things covered by the equality act

Aw, this rule makes it so much harder to easily identify and remove the cunts Wink

neunundneunzigluftballons · 16/12/2013 19:40

Monica if he was a football casual and had gone to a match and kicked the shit out of the away fans would he not have done anything wrong there either.

Fact is he is homophobic, he told the truth at lunch, no doubt but there are socially accepted boundaries in a work place and he over stepped them. You are not allowed to discuss your homophobic views in the workplace, it is discriminatory.

DoYouLikeMyBaubles · 16/12/2013 19:45

I cannot believe people on here are nearly defending the absolute tosspot.

OP please DO NOT apologise. You have done nothing wrong

Your boss is also completely shocking, and I find it quite sinister that this man felt he could be open about his homophobia, not only in the workplace but whilst his boss was there. That doesn't bode well at all.

I'd be looking for another job (although we all know times are bloody hard)

LovelyMarchHare · 16/12/2013 19:48

woman in my office has made ridiculous homophobic remarks for years. I went to a civil partnership ceremony (two men) and she was asking who was wearing the dress ??.

It now turns out her son has come out and I can't stop grinning!

monicalewinski · 16/12/2013 19:55

He did nothing wrong in a work capacity - he was asked a direct question and he answered it - he should have been brought up on the inappropriateness of it by his boss, but his boss cocked up by addressing OP instead, who was offended and rightly so.

If he says anything else which promulgate his views then yes of course he must be punished, but all he did was say he was at a march against gay marriage - nobody has officially complained about what he said, so what do you think should have happened?

I am of the opinion that he was wholly wrong, I have not implied otherwise, but my bigger concern is the boss - who has effectively given the ok to discriminatory culture in the workplace; this, to me is far worse than his bigoted view.

I really don't see why you are challenging me to be honest - I gave the OP (in my original post) the advice to refuse to apologise, then go straight to HR if her boss was an arse about it.

And of course someone kicking the shit out of someone is wrong, it is against the law, what a ridiculous statement.

RaspberryRuffle · 16/12/2013 19:57

Well done OP. Your boss should absolutely not be asking you to apologise.
Of course this man is homophobic, he spends his free time going on marches with the objective of denying people an equal right based on their sexual orientation.

LovelyMarchHare I feel so sorry for your colleague's son. Hopefully her mothering instinct will won through.
A friend of mine was badly beaten up by his father when he came out. One of my colleagues has said they would disown their children if they turned out to be gay.

GoshAnneGorilla · 16/12/2013 20:10

OP YANBU and you did the right thing getting up and walking away.

Your boss, however is on extremely dodgy ground.

LovelyMarchHare · 16/12/2013 20:10

Oh she's completely re-written history. Perfectly natural, wouldn't change it, just glad he's happy etc etc. Which is why it's a bit hilarious. I'm glad she's dealt with it in this way tho.

LovelyMarchHare · 16/12/2013 20:11

Oh she's completely re-written history. Perfectly natural, wouldn't change it, just glad he's happy etc etc. Which is why it's a bit hilarious. I'm glad she's dealt with it in this way tho.

Alisvolatpropiis · 16/12/2013 20:14

Yanbu and handled it well given the situation you were in at the time.

Your boss suggested you apologise, you don't have totals them up on it.

I doubt your boss would be so cool with your colleague doing EDL protests in his spare time.

Same difference to me. Both wrong.

neunundneunzigluftballons · 16/12/2013 20:17

He did nothing wrong in a work capacity he did do something wrong in a work capacity though Monica, he did, you have to tailor your work conversation to one that is appropriate to the work environment and he did not do that. I am not commenting on your original reply to the OP there have been over 80 so frankly I don't remember it, I am commenting on the statement you have repeated that he did nothing wrong.

MaidOfStars · 16/12/2013 20:31

He stated (by implication) that he holds homophobic views.

He did not state those homophobic views.

It's a fine line, but (for me) it's a clear one. He didn't even say (technically) that he's against gay marriage (although I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt on it).

monicalewinski · 16/12/2013 20:39

neun

From OP:

"We were chatting about what we had done over the weekend, and one of them said that he has participated in protest march against gay marriage in a city about three hours from where we live. I was quite shocked by this, and said I needed to finish something back in the office, and left the table."

He was asked what he did at the weekend, he said he'd been on a march against gay marriage. OP then left the table immediately.

He did nothing more than say he went on a protest march.

Yes, this implies that he holds abhorrent views, but did he offend? Yes, OP; did she complain? No. Therefore the right course of action would have been for the boss to make clear to the man that whilst he is perfectly entitled to hold whatever personal views he wishes, homophobic views are not welcome in the workplace, either unofficially or officially, and there will be repercussions if he does.

The boss is in the wrong here, and whilst the man is obviously not very nice, I really can't see what grounds there are to discipline him.

PedantMarina · 16/12/2013 22:43

Gaah! Monica - he could easily have said "Oh, I did a church thing. And what did you get up to?" And the conversation moves on.

But he mentioned not only that his activity of choice was anti-gay, it was in a city three hours away - quite the commitment of time and effort, he made that clear. He could have mentioned any other thing thing he did with the weekend: "Finished my christmas shopping shopping, played with the car, watched the footie...", but he didn't choose to speak about that. So, yes, by deciding to make the topic of conversation the fact that he has strong enough homophobic views to spend time doing this on a weekend and tell people in the workplace about it, yeah, that's wrong.

It's called gatekeeping, and what you choose to talk about is as important as what you say about within the topic.

You want to know how many people feel they have to have to keep schtum about mental health appointments, medical issues and alternative-religious stuff? And discriminating on those grounds isn't even legal, but they feel they have to show discretion about it. Whereas this guy felt he had the right to discuss it and get offended that the OP wasn't willing to sit around and listen to it? I boggle. Seriously.

I dig that you say you said some supportive things to OP, but you keep - repeatedly - saying "he did nothing wrong", and in this, monica, you're wrong.

I like the sentiment earlier: If you're going to be a repulsive whateva, don't be surprised if you repulse people.

takingthathometomomma · 16/12/2013 22:47

YANBU, at all! I can't believe that your boss asked you to apologise. I would raise the issue. That is completely unacceptable. Your boss is lucky that you're not a mouthy gobshite (like me...) and walked away. That would have turned into a full blown debate (an probably lead to an argument) if I'd been there!