To think psychics are all fakes?

[LambinsideaDuckinsideaTrout]

I don't like that they take peoples money when they are in a vulnerable place, lost loved ones etc. It's immoral. Just my opinion.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[off side track]...

It is the preying on vulnerarability that gets me. Believe what you like, understand what you can (in terms of probability/proof etc) but don't prey on the vulnerable.

I've read the thread and have a similar feeling at times. I'm a (maths) teacher - this whole thread reminds me of the time that ALL my colleagues spent time trying to convince 2 students that they didn't have a 50/50 chance of being run over when they crossed the road!!

[because you'd be run over or you wouldn't - 2 options so 50/50 surely!!]

Ha! So many more variables to consider with that one.

To us, yes, to them; 'run over or not' - 2 options so equal chance in their minds. Many attempts to point out the many times they had (successfully) crossed a road without injury were still met with 'but I'll get run over or not'.

To be fair, we did garner an understanding in the end but it took a mammoth effort!

Yes, ALL psychics are fakes.

However, I think some deluded psychics may believe they are genuine.

They are dangerous and evil - avoid IMO.

They are batshit crazy.

Should be criminalised, in my view. It's the worst kind of cynicism, that profits from people's grief and stress.

I agree with those obviously damaging things but what's your position on Father Christmas and fairies? Are we damaging children by telling them these stories? Should the world be all about cold hard facts and evidence?

One of my uni lecturers was ill a lot as a child and spent more than one Xmas in hospital. He worried that he wasn't 'good' because other kids got better presents brought by father Xmas. SO yes it CAN do harm

"I agree with those obviously damaging things but what's your position on Father Christmas and fairies? Are we damaging children by telling them these stories? Should the world be all about cold hard facts and evidence?"

No- children gradually grow out of believing in theses things as their knowledge of the world-their "body of evidence" if you like- gets bigger.

I think I've figured out what Zing was saying to me yesterday.

I was talking about the fact that if something had a 1 in a billion chance of being true this is, in all practical ways, pretty much the same as being "not true".

She inferred from that (I think) that all chances have equal odds of 1 in a billion.

Including the possibility that the universe came about by chance. The chance aspect gives it a 1 in a billion chance of being true which equals not true.

"Top scientists" say that it's either chance or an intelligent creator - so if the chance aspect is not true, then it must be God.

Yes. I do believe that was what she was saying. And this was all based off my logic, apparently.

Zing Is that what you meant? If so, I think we need to correct that misunderstanding.

Also, re: Santa - the entire narrative includes the issue of when children grow out of it, and start keeping the secret for younger siblings and so on. Growing out of it is as much a part of the story as being young enough to believe wholeheartedly.

The whole thing is self-limiting. Wish the baby Jesus crap was too.

See also lies to children

DP is Christian. Of the left wing, women and gay equality part of the CoE, that is interested in service not conversion. Most of his past vicars work in East London practically helping people of all faiths and non. they are often the port of call for people in need when govt bodies have not been able to help.

(I am not religious at all)

I never question his faith because it drives him to work in failing schools. I am veggie but I don't need to justify my beliefs to anyone including him. but why do I think he is religious? when he was born some of his bones did not grow correctly which when you consider this means crushing your heart and lungs as they grow, his childhood was obviously difficult and he has various dangerous operations.

I think it is a coping mechanism. just like psychics.

the topic I care about is what are the affects on others of someone's beliefs?

"it's in the Bible.

everything from Creation to ten commandments to warnings and blessings and prophecies and instructions and the Gospels, the importance of Jesus Christ - absolutely everything."

So why should I believe what's in the Bible? Much of it is nonsensical, contradicts itself even on simple matters and demonstrably false. There are other holy books such as the Koran that claim to be the word of God - why believe the Bible rather than any other supposedly holy text?

Strictly speaking people's beliefs don't affect others at all. It's the actions that proceed from those beliefs.

Just as important is that passing on the belief has an effect. When we convince people that urges they feel are put there by god or that passages from a book are instructions then that can lead to serious consequences. Especially when accompanied by the idea that these urges or instructions must always be right and moral no matter how awful they may seem at first glance.

He sounds admirable, Favourite. I suppose someone more hostile to religion than I am would ask whether it would not be possible for your DP to perform the same services in an entirely secular spirit, simply for the sake of those benefitted, without the 'carrot' of salvation dangled in front of him...?

My own mother, an immensely devout Irish Catholic, would admit herself that her faith is a coping mechanism. But I think it's also generational and cultural. It would have been unheard of for an Irishwoman of her generation and background not to be devout. She also does a lot of good work with dementia patients at the local hospital, but I think her reasons for that are very complicated.

So why should I believe what's in the Bible?

Pffff....come on, Hackmum, where's your logical head this morning?

You should believe the Bible is true because, in the Bible, it says it is true. We know the Bible never lies because it tells us it never lies.

It's all true. Except the bits that aren't.

HTH.

I just want to say that I really admire Hettie and the other posters who have expressed the facts so well and articulately. I don't know how you have the patience.

I am a convert to atheism, so you can save people. Derren Brown saved me! Not personally, unfortunately through one of his books.

I have been so much happier since. I don't have to worry about hell and having bad thoughts. The thought is as bad as the deed to God.

For this reason I regret allowing my children to believe in Santa and fairies. We still go through the mince pie for Santa and stocking but they know it is a tradition like acting in a play not real. I think children need to question everything and be helped to question and then they wont take anything on blind faith.

I believe religion was used to control the people with the promise of riches in the next life, the ultimate carrot and stick and it filled the gap that was left by our limited knowledge of science.

I have been so much happier since. I don't have to worry about hell and having bad thoughts

That is wonderful to hear, Fish. Congratulations :)

Thank you.

My Mum "claims" to be pyschic. She is in the mad not bad category.
She is deluded,simple as that.

She comes from a poor background and had little education and I know she has low self esteem because of this. I think this is a way for her to feel special, she thinks has knowledge that other people don't.

She doesn't charge (yet) I don't know if she has plans to. She reads the tarot cards at family parties. She told a woman she would come into money and a week later the woman won £100 at bingo. Coincidences like this reinforce her belief that she can do it.

I worried my way through childhood about breaking mirrors, black cats, breaking fairies hearts. Wtf why would you do that to a child.

I have been with her and she has been talking to herself telling me that it is my dead granddad. She has scared me with warnings of impending doom that never happened.

Now I don't tell her much about my life, it is easier that way. I can't have a cold without her telling me it is something to do with a past life.

The worse thing is some people believe her.

Oh no, everyone has gone and I name changed especially!

I predict some people will be coming back :)

I'm still here, lurking away.

I like Derren too :)

I'll be honest, I've only just rejoined MN and already I'm in love with Hettie.