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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

feminists

225 replies

babywipesaremagic · 04/12/2013 12:40

This is the first time I have started a thread, I lurk often and post sometimes.

I know that a lot of MNers are proud feminists and this is often mentioned in posts then followed with claims that femininity is anti feminist. For example make up and time that a woman spends on her appearance is a blow to feminism.

I strongly believe in equal rights for EVERYONE, regardless of gender, sexuality, age, race. My question to any feminists who are reading is do you feel that women need to be more like men in order to be equal, and if so does this not mean that the patriarchal views of past generations have simply been passed onto us. So you can be a successful woman, but only if you downplay your looks and gentler side.

Because to me that isn't really a victory at all, more of a surrender.

OP posts:
Thants · 04/12/2013 21:59

Society does condition us to act in certain ways according to our gender and as a feminist I disagree with that. Because it hugely disadvantages women.
Wearing makeup and spending much more time on our appearance is something we are conditioned to do and it does disadvantage women economically, socially and sexually. Not wearing makeup wouldn't make us more like men because being a woman isn't about false femininity ie loving pink, wearing makeup and heels. That is not what makes us women. And it is difficult to make a real choice whether to do these things or not when society is coercing into following one path and not the other.
Fighting for real freedom and equality imo means accepting patriarchy exists and working to break it not pander to it.

SconeRhymesWithGone · 04/12/2013 22:00

Monica Come to the FWR pub; it's great. And there is no vehemence test. Grin

GodRestTEEMerryGenTEEmen · 04/12/2013 22:02

Y'all might convince me to come to the pub...

Mignonette · 04/12/2013 22:03

We're going to have to agree to disagree hamster because i fail to see how distorting the way a woman walks is somehow accentuating or maximising a natural trait. Check out Daphne Guiness falling as she walked to McQueens funeral or Naomi Campbell on the catwalk, falling in Westwood heels

I'm not sure about you but I don't 'naturally' walk like that. And I do wear heels BTW before I am sterotyped as a Feminist who lives in flats or Birkies. In fact I have my Sophia Websters on right now.

PenguinsDontEatPancakes · 04/12/2013 22:03

The pub is great. I can knock back massive glasses of wine without feeling guilty (am pregnant, so can't IRL).

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/12/2013 22:03

The pub is nice, if I say so as shouldn't. Mind you kim had to do with it as well, and others, and we all keep it going.

Thants · 04/12/2013 22:05

Heels are bad because they are painful! Damaging to legs and feet and restrict movement. Only women are encouraged to wear them to look sexy for men ergo they are damaging to women.

GodRestTEEMerryGenTEEmen · 04/12/2013 22:05

Well I'm currently a bit tipsy so I might pop in.

Drinking on a school night! Horror! Grin

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 22:17

< clears throat >

I am a feminist and I don't use big words nor reference obscure feminist writings. I hardly ever type more than two concise sentences.

TheBigJessie · 04/12/2013 22:19

Ah, one of those absolutely wonderful "feminists pick on me for wearing make-up" threads. Great. I haven't had one of these fights for ages, which means I've got a lot of rage built up.

Feminists do not pick on people for wearing make-up. They support women's autonomy over their own bodies. This is an intrinsic part of feminism. We'll comment that you aren't making your choices in a cultural vacuum, but that's mostly about it.

The "I'm not a feminist" lot on the other hand... Well, they have no such ideals.

I don't wear make-up. I don't enforce this on anyone else. It's simply my choice for my face. I don't comment on the fact that other people do to them.

  1. I don't care
  2. It's rude to criticise people's appearance.
  3. Ideologically, I think they have the right to use mascara and what-not.

Interestingly, the same courtesy does not get extended to me back. Indeed, many "I'm not a feminist"s seem to take my face as a personal affront...

I like to be clean and neat, have clean hair and clean clothes, and brushed hair. I just don't wear make-up. I have been getting negative personal remarks on it for years. I imagine that when I finish my professional qualifications and start working in office-y jobs again, it will re-start. Assuming my natural face gets past the interviewer. (Sometimes I think the expectation that one should wear make-up is like a tax on being female.)

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 22:19

High heels are damaging to whoever wears them on a regular basis. If you take any cultural references completely out of the equation, the anatomical effects remain and it isn't good news, sorry.

VerySmallSqueak · 04/12/2013 22:27

I think whether or not you are a feminist is something you know from inside you,and nothing to do with what others definitions are.

I don't give two hoots what a woman is wearing,whether they dye their hair,shave their pits,or wear make up.

I love the diversity of the sisterhood.

Joysmum · 04/12/2013 22:29

I feel more oppressed and put upon by other women then I ever have by men. Ardent feminists are anything but being about choice, they are about finding and dwelling on faults and critiquing.

gordyslovesheep · 04/12/2013 22:31

I'm not - stop generalising

FreudiansSlipper · 04/12/2013 22:33

i have been told (in the past when i was) i was too glamorous to be a feminist

by men and a few women who did not like feminists and claim that feminism has done nothing for them Hmm

it is what is going on in my mind that other feminists are interested in not if i am wearing mascara and eye liner

BuffytheElfSquisher · 04/12/2013 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 22:49

The absolutely shitty threads criticising, for example, female celebrities ? Rarely started by feminists.

monicalewinski · 04/12/2013 22:56

TEE Grin at avoiding the terrifying pub at all costs!!

If there is definitely no vehemence test, I may sign up!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/12/2013 22:58

Oh, nice try mist. You are the most terrifying feminist of them all! Wink

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/12/2013 23:03

Oh, and just to be boring:

Heels are bad. I mean, we know that. If I posted in S&B to the most ardent Jimmy Choo fans and said 'hi, do you think it's a good idea for me to wear 4 inch stilettos for my 10 hour shift, 5 days a week?' they would all laugh at me and tell me what's what.

The issue is that, in moderation, most of us do things that are bad for us, but which we really fancy doing. Often that is because it's socially conditioned. That's why things go in and out of fashion and when they're out, we can't believe we ever thought they looked good.

No one I know suggests feminists are immune to feeling that way.

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 23:07

Give over, LRD. Now go and stand in the corner, in heels, as a punishment !

TheBigJessie · 04/12/2013 23:07

I once came in to find two of my (female) flatmates bitching about another friend for being disgusting. Her crime? She didn't shave her armpits. (They hadn't realised I didn't either yet)

I assure you, they weren't using feminist literature to back this opinion up.

But, yeah, yeah, it's all feminists who criticise other women. Right?

WoTmania · 04/12/2013 23:08

Hmm yes YABU for all the reasons stated by other posters

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/12/2013 23:08
MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 23:10

I tried to smoke cigarettes for a couple of years because I thought they made me look good. I never mastered it, so I gave up, and it was never a good idea.

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