to think immigrants should work before being entitled to benefits?

[judgejudithjudy]

EU immigrants will only be allowed to claim benefits 12 weeks after entering the UK but surely EU immigrants should only be entering the UK to work - not claim? I can understand if they enter the country to work & then lose their jobs - more than entitled to benefits but surely you should pay into the system first?

ready to be flamed so wearing my flame coated coat :-)

Ok should step away and become the lurker.

Heartbroken, you say that you are yet to meet an eu immigrant that cannot speak English or have a job, yet if someone had said the opposite then accusations of anecdotes != data, and bingo calls et all would (and have) been called

The debate is a non issue (although I do agree with the premise) but you are playing the game your supposed opposition wants you to.

heart - think what you want! i was just posting about what was in the news today out of interest holiday, do you think that immigrants should be entitled to benefits despite not putting in the pot? if so, why? :-)

Well, obviously I think that anyone who is legally allowed to claim benefits in this country should claim them, whether they're British, Italian, Spanish, Polish, etc. If I didn't believe this, I wouldn't be here arguing the toss with you, would I? I'd be agreeing with you

And yet no one is advovacting denying benefits, just that there is some (new) predefined criteria for those entering the country.

My issue is that why are eu migrants given preferential treatment to non eu migrants.

non eu migrants are normally here due to threat from their country - they should be given all the help/benefits to assist them in making a better life. migrants just using the uk as a meal ticket is my problem.

Why don't we just implement the 3 month/1 year of work tarif, then get the other EU countries to do the same back to us?

I wouldn't move to France, Germany or Poland unless I had some English teaching work lined up for my arrival (as I have taught in various countries), and other economic migrants are exactly the same from other countries. So why not make it an EU ruling that there is freedom of movement, freedom to apply to any job across the continent, but whenever you move from your native country, you have a 3/6/12 month contributory tarif before you can receive benefits. Healthcare access should be excluded from this though!

non eu migrants are normally here due to threat from their country - they should be given all the help/benefits to assist them in making a better life. migrants just using the uk as a meal ticket is my problem.

The non EU migrants I know are either Americans or Norwegians.

when we move to Germany (as we have done in the past a few times), within a week we will have to register at our town hall, explain what we're doing there, show that we have funds/a job to support ourselves and have adequate health insurance. This is how the Germans can try to minimise benefit tourism in their country.

But then Germans too have to register every year. Governments in the EU are allowed to set their own laws, just not discriminate against EU nationals from other member states.

This whole debate is just spin from the Conservatives. There is already an EU framework to deal with any "problem" with benefit tourism, which the member states can legislate in their own way, so long as they don't discriminate. The stories in the press imply that we are overrun with benefit scrounging EU nationals, and that DC is going to ride to the rescue with some magic laws - which sadly is something that lots of people are happy to believe, without looking at any evidence. All we're in fact doing is making ourselves look like complete, ignorant idiots.

It's extremely embarrassing. I wish it would stop.

when we move to Germany (as we have done in the past a few times), within a week we will have to register at our town hall, explain what we're doing there, show that we have funds/a job to support ourselves and have adequate health insurance. This is how the Germans can try to minimise benefit tourism in their country.

If that is the case then Germany are breaking EU law on free movement. EU law forbids member states from requiring you to register before 3 months.

I'm afraid I just don't understand why expecting economic migrants to support themselves for the first 3 months through work or personal savings is a bad thing.

Short of war or persecution (i.e. reugee or asylum seeker status), I wouldn't just rock up to another country and expect them to pay for me until I found a job there. If I tried that in Australia / the USA / a large number of countries around the world I'd never get past security!

If you are going to move to a county to work then you should have the job secured before hand, or be able to prove you have enough funds to support yourself until you find one. My brother will be moving out to Japan in a few weeks to start a job - he had to prove he had the job before he could even apply for his visa to get in - and had to provide bank statements to prove his financial security.

I don't believe that the freedom of movement in the EU is equatable with the freedom to claim support, and I don't believe that the arguments on this thread about British benefit claimants is really relevant - trying to solve one problem is not invalidated by the presence of a similar or related issue.

It's been well reported recently that immigrants to this country have provided a net gain - I think most people are well aware of the economic benefit migration has - but the small subsection that do operate under the 'benefits tourism' umbrella should be discourage from doing so, and if this polocy stops that then I'm all for it. It will not stop genuine workers from coming over.

Only if they make it law that UK citizens can only claim if they have made significant contributions.

Why should we support home grown scrongers? Because they're British?

In ROI, for example, you have to have paid tax for 12 months in order to get anything

Fair enough

it is the case Westiemama, you wouldn't have to do it if you were staying on holiday or short term, but we are staying longer than three months. Also the requirement to register applies to its own residents as well as EU citizens coming in (or indeed anyone intending to reside). I cited it as one way another EU country deals with such matters. Obviously in the UK, we have a big problem with identity cards etc, so if we were going to start asking EU citizens to start on a more bureaucratic route, we'd have to be willing to do it ourselves.

Sugarmouse, I think there is an argument for supporting British born people differently from migrants- I posted it at 20.22 last night.

sigh am a bigot now :-\