to think immigrants should work before being entitled to benefits?

[judgejudithjudy]

EU immigrants will only be allowed to claim benefits 12 weeks after entering the UK but surely EU immigrants should only be entering the UK to work - not claim? I can understand if they enter the country to work & then lose their jobs - more than entitled to benefits but surely you should pay into the system first?

ready to be flamed so wearing my flame coated coat :-)

Respected paper? Moogy you should be on 'Live at the Apollo', with the other comedians.

Oh, wait, you were serious?

Well, unless we all do raw research individuallyt, we all have to at some point believe the figures given by the likes of the NHS.
What does your research show the true figure is?

Who made you the thread police heartbroken?

People are not obliged to provide you with stats or explain why they chose to start a thread

And they certainly don't have to provide you with research or links!

So what is the figure? And I'm not accepting anything from the Guardian if the Telegraph isn't allowed

RedLondonBus.. Asking for stats isn't that part of the debate?

Yay! I'm the thread police!

1. if someone posts supposed facts, then they should back them up with figures, otherwise their point is invalid, which is why I asked for statistics

2. you're another one who has come here just to have a go at me. Anything valid to say? At least I've participated in the discussion.

Sorry, moogy, I'm not the one claiming that translation/interpreting costs are through the roof. I don't have to provide stats.

come on heartbroken you asked for figures, I gave them and was unfairly dismissed, so let's hear your figures

By the way, moogy, your 'stats' on late-18th century UK population are also WILDLY inaccurate.

If I can't use the stats. provided by the NHS trusts themselves, might I ask what I can use?

ok Janine, what's your figures then. and I believe we're only accepting our own research data

I moved to Cyprus nearly 10 years ago. Nobody can come here and expect hand outs. We have to pay in before we can take out.

For example, to claim unemployment benefit there must be a minimum of 6 months prior contributions of Social Insurance (like NI) and then it takes at least 2 months to received the first payment. It is a very small amount and is paid for only 6 months then nothing. The procedure is soul destroying, red tape here is enough to put anyone off claiming.

Er, no heartbroken

I asked a question way up thread. Certainly not here to just have a go at you. I'm here because it's topical. You think posters just flock to threads for you??

When you were given sources you dismissed them as not good enough. I repeat, nobody is obliged.

No. I think that everyone should have had a period of paid employment behind them before receiving unemployment benefits. But then I realise this view is probably very unpopular.

Just to put it into context I have lived in another European country and this was the case there. The taxes paid by an individual acted as a form of 'insurance' should they, personally, be made redundant. This was the regardless of whether you were a national of that country or an EU or non EU immigrant.

Nice try though op.

Ok, more accurately, 30.5 million by 1901.
That's from the office for national statistics taken from that years' census. Good enough source?

What figure have you got Janine?

I agree with janine and heartbroken.

Why target immigrants? Why single them out? The issue surely is that there are a minority of people who do not contribute to the system for a prolonged period of time, who are neither disabled, caring for disabled, sick, elderly or children.

Why shouldn't UK nationals be held up for scrutiny too if the benefits bill is too high already?

Why is this thread about immigrants when it could be about people? (People = any person regardless of origin, colour, race, nationality or creed.)

Er, try the UK census. The first one was carried out in 1801 (there is no definitive measure for UK population in the 18th century, only estimates).

In 1801 there were about 10m people in England and Wales (Ireland and Scotland were not included).

please people - thiis NOT about how many immigrants but whether they are entitled to benefits if never having worked in the UK! back to op.....

because littlemiss i am discussing what is big on the news today fgs....... if it was about all benefit scroungers then i wouldve started a topic about that (triple sigh)

Population in late 18th C was roughly 35 million. About half of present.

No, the population in the late 18th C would have been somewhere under 10m. Less than 1/3 of what you claimed.

littlemiss this is about a news item, not general benefit claimants

So I will ask again.... When they come over here and lose their job before the cut off point, how will they live until they are eligible for benefits/get a new job?

Ok, Thanks londonbus.

I haven't read the article so am withdrawing from discussion to take a watching position rather than a writing one.

thiis NOT about how many immigrants but whether they are entitled to benefits if never having worked in the UK! back to op.....

According to the law, they are entitled to claim. But you can't just discuss benefits and ask about whether immigrants are entitled having never worked, without taking into consideration the British-born people doing the same?

To do otherwise implies you're fixating on immigrants!