Are we raising a generation of helpless kids?

[YouTheCat]

Interesting article in the Huffington Post about if we (generally) are doing too much for our kids, letting them get away with things and not letting them take the consequences.

I have to say I find a lot of it quite true, though obviously not about every parent but in a general way. I see a lot of this at school. Parents descending full of violent indignation that their child has been reprimanded or hasn't got a place in an after school club, where I had never seen this behaviour when I was at school (bloody ages ago).

My own dd (18) has some funny idea that she will waltz into a fantastic job after college when, in reality, she will probably have to work in Asda and gain some experience first.

Friday, all my friends are turning 50 with dc in their late teens and hardly any stayed on to 6th form let alone to university.

Anecdote isn't the point: of people born in 1964, about 12% went to university or equivalent. Those people won't be randomly distributed, so a given individual may know very few of them or a lot of them, depending on where they live and whether they themselves went to university.

(See here, figure 2).

YANBU

I have SN and family just gave me what I wanted/money til I was in my 20s. I am 30 now and still "catching up." I've come a long way in 7 years, thanks to lovely (sometimes strict) people who are more like family to me now.

I am trying to let mine grow up to be independent etc (they are only 8 & 11 at the mo, so I still have to get through the teens which I am dreading!).

I've always let them out to play, call on friends, climb trees, rough play etc. My eldest has become a latch key kid now he is at secondary and they have been doing their own packed lunches and school bags from about age 7; I have started letting them go into the pictures on their own and sit in the café at the supermarket whilst I am shopping (11 yr old looking after 8 yr old) loads of other stuff, but you get the gist!

This has all been frowned upon by my husband, my sister and my mum as they think the boys are too young, but I have disagreed and persuaded my husband round. All of them seem to have conveniently forgotten the childhoods we ourselves had (70s and 80s), me and my sister were latch key kids from 9 yr old and had way more freedom than even I give my boys - I used to have to get the dinner on for everyone coming home from work from age 11, and got a train to school in another town from that age.

I hope I'm doing the right thing for my children, but only time will tell - but I do feel like I am massively judged by a lot of people for how I am raising my them.

capsium - "sometimes the thought of them suffering is too much to bear".

Hmm, you see I define suffering as losing a parent, losing your home, being neglected, being bullied, being hungry, being unloved. I don't define suffering as having to do some chores, managing for 6 hours without your PE kit, having to do as you are told at school, having to get yourself from A to B when it is perfectly possible to do that etc etc

No, reasonable loving parent wants their child to 'suffer', that would just be wrong but there has to be a difference between genuine suffering & valuable life lessons?

You Of course. However suffering is relative isn't it.

Until your child learns the correct responses for the 'life lesson' and indeed how to predict consequences, we have to manage the consequences for them.

Just saying that it is likely this is will not be an entirely smooth process, it is a learning curve and each individual child is different.

I don't see any cause for alarm.

I'm a bit older than you OP and I remember some pampered classmates. I was pretty pampered myself - my mother's mother died when she was young leaving four children under 10. They all had to work hard, through no fault of her father. That's just the way it was.

My mother vowed that her own children weren't going to lift a finger, and we didn't. We've all turned out to be competent enough.

The job situation is tough at the moment but there's no reason why your DD shouldn't get a job commensurate to her skills if she's lucky either. She certainly should be allowed dreams. I had them at 18.

It happened for my nephew who's a little bit older than her. He was undoubtedly lucky to walk into a very good job straight from university but there was no reason to expect that he should have to work in Asda to get experience.

Not that there's anything wrong with working in Asda. It just wouldn't have provided relevant experience for his career plan and so it would have been illogical to factor it in.

And if he took the job in Asda what would be left for the people who want to work in supermarkets or need to because though they're perfectly decent people, they don't have the qualifications to work somewhere else?

I find it quite depressing that young people are sneered for being helpless and expected to be grateful for any job rather than have reasonable ambitions.

Capsium, how is a child ever going to learn the "correct responses" to a life lesson if you jump in there and "manage the consequences" for them? Parents really don't need to "manage the consequences" of a child getting told off at school, for example. Not that I think there's anything wrong with talking about it with a DC, going through appropriate responses etc. if that's your definition of managing the consequences though.

I'm pretty sure I had a few pampered classmates too. But all of them could manage to get themselves from A to B without relying on lifts (despite being rural) and wouldn't have expected their parents to descend on school had they been told off for something.

Most young people are not, realistically, going to walk into their dream job - or older people for that matter. And no there is nothing wrong with dreaming or having something to aim for at all. Just as there is nothing wrong with working in Asda - I'd be quite happy with a job there myself at the moment though I have plenty of qualifications under my belt.

I don't think I am sneering at anyone, certainly not the young. I do despair at some parents' attitudes though. Not all parents though, because I don't believe for a second that all parents would march up to the school the minute their progeny has a detention. But there are those that would and do and that is something I had never encountered in my youth.

My parents would never have marched down to my school because a teacher gave out to me, or because I didn't get a starring role in the school play, both of which a friend of mine who is a teacher often experiences.
She has no problem with parents coming down to discuss genuine concerns and issues with her, or to clear up misunderstandings, but she said some parents just cannot accept that sometimes their children were just being brats who needed a telling off, or that their daughter does not have a good enough singing voice to star as Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz or whatever.

I do sometimes wonder how children like this will survive in the real world when their mum can't come charging into their workplace demanding to know why someone else got the promotion instead of their wonder child, or why their little darling got a verbal warning for throwing a sickie.

I find this quite accurate:
www.picturesandjokes.com/pictures/then-vs-now-5.jpg

Exactly, Hazel!

Does anybody else think celebrity/talent show culture has a (small) part to play? I know I always get unreasonably annoyed when people on the x factor come out with 'I don't want to be a cleaner/check-out worker/sales assistant all my life/I deserve something more.' Particularly when they are in their teens and probably only in their first job. I always want Dermot or whoever to give them a proper grilling and make them admit that what they are actually saying is that while these jobs need doing, they personally think they are too good for them.

I don't understand how anyone thinks a good tactic is to basically admitted that you think you are better/more deserving than the people you are trying to get votes from!

Does anybody else think celebrity/talent show culture has a (small) part to play?

A good reason not to watch them, then. I've never seen any of those programmes, and I don't think I'm missing much.

yes they have dreamed it all their life they dont want to do anything else, I usually shout fgs behave yourself you are 16 get a grip

When I was 16 all I wanted to be was an architect. Sadly the kind of school I attended didn't encourage young ladies to do the kinds of subjects required

I remember one girl a few years above me having aspirations to become an actress whose parents paid out a small fortune for acting lessons. She never did achieve her dream and tbh we all thought she was a bit up herself. I'm pretty sure she would have been on Britain's Got Talent or some such rubbish had it existed then.

I think it very true. Parents will not let go and they think that it is good for a child to have every want supplied and that they should never have to deal with the disappointments or mistakes. They don't prepare them, there are parents who won't let a nine year old boil a kettle, have a sharp knife to chop onions etc and they think it is good parenting!
You see it on here everyday so it will only get worse, unless the pendulum swings the other way.

My parents took a teacher to task for a detention because it would have involved a lonely walk home in the dark - it was winter. The teacher was being foolish but they came to a more sensible arrangement.

That's normal, isn't it? It taught me not accept unfair treatment in adulthood which has been very useful. I definitely think more people could do with learning that lesson.

And I remember the parents who marched to the school to collar teachers. Usually over class rankings. It was that kind of school.

So the other life lesson I learned was that squeaky wheels get the most attention. I've lost touch with all but one of my classmates but I've no reason to believe that they aren't successful.

Bruffin - I agree with Friday16 about anecdotes. I can completely balance yours, but saying that I, my friends, colleagues, siblings, and cousins are all also in the "turning 50" range, and every dc amongst them has now gone to, or is applying to, or intending to go to University - mainly because jobs that used to take on youngsters at 16 or 18 are now asking for a degree. That's certainly different from when my generation left school at the start of the 80s.

Parents coming in and complaining about their child getting told off isn't that new though - I remember (as an innocent young teacher) in the late 80s being STUNNED that parents did this well, the more civilised ones, some were more violent.

I know YoutheCat, you've said it is a generalisation, but I suspect there have always been parents who do everything for their dc, it's just there hasn't been MN always, so we never knew about these loons people before.

We try really hard to encourage Dd to be independent and think for herself (she is 3.9). We try to show her that actions have consequences.

She can get herself dressed, complete with coat and shoes, clears up after herself, uses cutlery properly, loves making her bed and can (with supervision) fix herself an omelette.

This mainly sprung from one of my colleagues being worried at what her son's school expected him to be able to do when he started reception and having a panic as he had never been shown any of it : o i was determined that would not be us

eofa

Capsium, how is a child ever going to learn the "correct responses" to a life lesson if you jump in there and "manage the consequences" for them? Parents really don't need to "manage the consequences" of a child getting told off at school, for example. Not that I think there's anything wrong with talking about it with a DC, going through appropriate responses etc. if that's your definition of managing the consequences though.

We all manage consequences for other people, to some extent. If someone was about to walk into the road when a bus was coming, you'd pull them back. There is nothing wrong with this.

This is not a straightforward issue. Managing consequences is an incremental process. Schools are not infallible and do get it wrong sometimes, as do parents.

i hired someone like this. she did not understand I was her boss not her parent! she was 23 and did not really understand that she needed to work to get paid and it was not pocket money.

I do sometimes feel harsh when my 17yo DS is muttering angrily whilst cleaning the toilet bowl but then threads like this reassure me its for the best !

Yes.
I was thinking about crossing roads earlier, and I have to say, having shepherded many different 7 year olds about on foot, that no-one seems to be teaching them how to cross a road, like, the basics (look left. look right-anything coming?)
I also know kids for whom getting on a bus (with an adult) is an adventure..
They are driven everywhere, so in comparison ds has excellent road awareness, a good idea of where things are in the town in relation to one another, which bus to get to go where.
At 7, I know he could make his way the 3 miles to grandmas on the bus and on foot (not that he is going to be doing that yet, but he could".)
So cars-that is a really big reason, and also childhood is seen as so precious now. I honestly think that most of ds's friends parents think I am some kind of Victorian Tyrant because ds has a few small chores,like putting his clean washing away, and weeding, and he is responsible for his school bag.
Also, there is a sense that they mustn't ever be bored or have to do anything they don't enjoy. I have seen threads a go-go on here about children in supermarkets, and someone will always go "oh, don't go through the Hell of taking them to the supermarket-shop online"
Well, yes, shopping online in convenient, but actually children need to go shopping for food with adults sometimes. How else will they learn?
I was a LP from day one with ds, so he has been dragged here there and everywhere with me out of necessity, and now he is my assistant , i.e "right, you go and grab the milk, I'll get the mince and I'll meet you in the biscuit aisle."
I still don't think he is anything like as capable as I was at his age, but at least I am trying!

That is a good point about the supermarket. I remember reading research into children in old fashioned children's homes, and one of the things that was an issue is that many did not know how to food shop as they never accompanied staff doing a food shop. We learn loads as kids just from being around our parents doing stuff.