Are we raising a generation of helpless kids?

[YouTheCat]

Interesting article in the Huffington Post about if we (generally) are doing too much for our kids, letting them get away with things and not letting them take the consequences.

I have to say I find a lot of it quite true, though obviously not about every parent but in a general way. I see a lot of this at school. Parents descending full of violent indignation that their child has been reprimanded or hasn't got a place in an after school club, where I had never seen this behaviour when I was at school (bloody ages ago).

My own dd (18) has some funny idea that she will waltz into a fantastic job after college when, in reality, she will probably have to work in Asda and gain some experience first.

[YouTheCat]

I have a group of children at school with dyslexia. They get allocated time on a specially developed computer program. About half of them moan because it's a bit boring. It is repetitive but that is the whole point (and it does help them quite a lot).

School shouldn't be a laugh a minute. Yes, you need some fun things to look forward to but I'm not a performing seal, here to amuse other people's children. Children need to learn how to handle boredom. It is a very useful life skill.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Yup. Also does anyone else think that very little seems to be expected of dc in terms of self care and also table manners??
I just found a giant turd in my toilet, left there by an 8 year old. No toilet paper..not flushed...ew!
Surely an 8 year old knows how to wipe himself? And flush the toilet?!
Only one of ds's friends seems to be able to use a knife and fork, and most of them have trouble sitting at the table. They will get up, holding their food, and wander about.
Ds is hard effing work to get to do these things as well,(well, not wiping or walking about, but using a knife properly) ands it's as if it's not considered important anymore.
Or is it just that there is a low expectation of boys in these areas??
Drives me flippin maaaad.
I am turning into Miss Jean Brodie in the face of untrained boys!

[CailinDana]

Upper classes have always had a sense of entitlement - kate and william are "special" purely because of the family they belong to - and it was practically the norm for men to be utterly hopeless around the house. Funnily enough though when "lower" classes presume to think they're special or when women are no longer the ones carrying the entire domestic burden it's a huge problem, caused by mothers of course. Our society relies on certain sectors keeping their heads down and knowing their place - poor people and women generally - so that the rich and men can ride on their backs.

[eofa1]

Capsium:

Have no issues with your example. Didn't know if you meant this kind of thing, or helping to manage the consequences of getting told off for misbehaving by marching into school and complaining about the teacher.

[capsium]

Didn't know if you meant this kind of thing, or helping to manage the consequences of getting told off for misbehaving by marching into school and complaining about the teacher.

This would not be my first course of action. However I would not rule it out, if I felt it was appropriate. Done in a considered manner, of course. Not sure the marching is necessary...

[capsium]

I am turning into Miss Jean Brodie in the face of untrained boys!

The interrelation between Nature and Nurture is complex....

[YouTheCat]

It's the precious ones that make it more difficult for you when you do have a genuine grievance though.

It do agree about the 'what is best for me' thing. There's a lot of that going on.

[bunchoffives]

As I child I think I grew up too fast with jobs, going out, relationships housework etc at what I now consider far too young. Yes I was far less naïve and more capable than my peers but I think they had more of a childhood. Such a shame.

You've got the whole of the rest of your life to be adult and are only a child for a relatively short time. Let kids be kids.

(However marching to the school because precious has been told off or hasn't got a starring role in the school play is just weird and stupid imo)

[ShriekingGnawer]

At the age of 9 DD can prepare a couple of simple meals, follow recipes, walk a mile to school on her own and go to the shop and work out the best deals for 4 pints of milk etc DS1 is 7 and nowhere near as independent as DD was at that point but we are working on it and hopefully he will get there.

I have taught them by working out what I feel comfortable with them doing and then letting them do a little bit more! Sometimes it is really hard but I think it is paying off.

[noblegiraffe]

Is it untrained boys or do girls leave turds in the toilet and get up from the dinner table?

If it's just a boy problem, then why?? Are parents more indulgent with boys?

[lainiekazan]

When I was at school in the 70s - a village primary with all sorts of pupils - table manners were high on the agenda. We all sat at tables with proper knives and forks and the headmaster used to stride round and swipe at anyone who had their elbows on the table, using knife like a pen etc.

Now, every single child who left that school had impeccable table manners, no matter what their background or way of doing things at home.

I just can't imagine this happening today. Told off for elbows on the table? Can you imagine the parents baying for the head's blood? With children having sandwiches or prison-style plastic trays for school dinners no wonder they're not learning good manners. If the parents don't place much of a priority on basic etiquette, then they're sunk.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

I don't want my dc to have the kind of independence I had as a kid either, as it was bordering on neglect. While it made me self sufficient it also made me quite fearful and overly anxious.
So when people hark back to the good old days of kids wandering the streets at 5 -it wasn't all good. by any means.
However, the self care stuff, and just basic responsibility is our job to teach them. It's hard. I go through the "tidy your room" "I don't want to" thing, and sometimes I think parents don't want to have to lay down the law, and get heavy, so they end up doing everything.
It IS good that children know they have a voice now, of course it is.
I just don't wan't that voice to be telling me it doesn't like me food, and why don't we have any computer games in an overly familiar tone.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

I think society expects less of boys noble. I have had many a friend tell me there is no point trying to potty train them before nearly 3. I beg to differ.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

My kind of headteacher laniekazan!

[fackinell]

I'm in my early 40s now but when I hit 14 it was expected of me to get a job. I worked sat afternoons and Sunday mornings in a newspaper shop. I was expected to ask for extra hours in the school hols too. I made tea every night for my mum coming home from work, did 1/3 of all household chores and the second I worked FT, I paid 1/3 of all HH expenses along with my mum and sis. She was a single parent and took no shite. Things have definitely changed,

Also, there's a poor work ethic and a can't be arsed attitude when it comes to teens working. Every Sat a 17 yo lad nicked out our till at work. Every other single one of us offered to clock in and out with bag searches, but even when pulled up, he brazened it out. An extreme example, yes, but I couldn't get over the brass neck of him.

[capsium]

Crikey, are we really heralding Miss Jean Brodie as a good example? She was a fascist!

[bigkidsdidit]

I agree IfNot - it's a fine balance. My mum remembers acutely the FEAR of being left, age 10, in charge of her brother and sister. And walking them to school while her brother ran off etc. that's no good either.

I am naturally a sap of a parent but DH is quite strict so I hope we will end up ok

[notso]

I've never had a problem with DD's friends flushing the toilet but DS1's friends are quite disgusting.
I think DD seems to have picked things up more quickly than DS1, he seems to need more reminding, but I still remind him.
I think there is a terrible boys will be boys attitude. Most of DS1's friends are first children or have no sisters. Their parents are always telling me I expect too much from DS1 when I expect him to remember to bring stuff home from school, tidy his room and leave the toilet in a reasonable state because boys don't do those things

Parents have complained to the school that I let DS1 walk by himself, he is in year 5 and we like about 90 seconds away from school! The complainers have taken it upon themselves to walk him home in case something happens to him.
I would love him to play in the local park with his friends, but none of them are allowed to go unsupervised. Two if them are not allowed to go out of site of an adult.
One of his friends mums won't let her son go on school trips unless she can go too with her two younger children as she won't leave them with anyone.

What really pisses me off though are all the parents who bleat on to me about their children being so precious, you can't be too careful the stakes are high etc. Judging me for allowing my children independence when their DC are sitting in their safe little bedroom bubbles on laptops and IPads and their parents have no idea who they are talking too or what they are looking at.

[YouTheCat]

Notso, you'll get the last laugh when they're still ferrying them and cleaning up after them when they are 21.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Come come capsium. She was merely a little right wing!

[capsium]

RRRRighttt!

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Thing is mrs D, life is rougher for many people, not just the young. You can be 35, but if you never got established in a career, never got around to buying property,never got a council place, you are kind of screwed. I lived abroad for years before having dc, then had to start from scratch here, and had to find the letter from the pope etc. Not to say young people don't have challenges, but many older people face the same difficulties with housing, and crap treatment at work.