Are we raising a generation of helpless kids?

[YouTheCat]

Interesting article in the Huffington Post about if we (generally) are doing too much for our kids, letting them get away with things and not letting them take the consequences.

I have to say I find a lot of it quite true, though obviously not about every parent but in a general way. I see a lot of this at school. Parents descending full of violent indignation that their child has been reprimanded or hasn't got a place in an after school club, where I had never seen this behaviour when I was at school (bloody ages ago).

My own dd (18) has some funny idea that she will waltz into a fantastic job after college when, in reality, she will probably have to work in Asda and gain some experience first.

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

Spork I agree with you and want to pick up on one point you made in particular - my sense is that this is just the latest version of the story that every generation likes to tell itself about the next generation: it was better in our day.

For example, linking the use of iPhones to teenagers unable to cope with delayed gratification seems to me to be cod psychology and codswallop in equal measure. It's just a neat narrative flow, and I could equally well construct one that said "children today use their iPhones to keep in touch with the world around them and as a result, they are more sensitive, well-rounded and well-informed than any generation before them". There's no scientific validity in either, but people choose the stories that provide them with most comfort.

[bruffin]

My DC are 16 and 18, i was never one to give them too many chores etc and my DS is dylexic and can be very disorganized. However at 18 he has gone out and got himself 3 jobs. One with a major electrical shop at the age of 16 over the christmas period. He has also passed his NPLQ and works at two different pools, over the last 2 year and will hopefully get him more work when he goes to uni next year. He has his own shares which he manages, has paid for and organised two holidays, including one in europe and hopes to go interailing next summer. He took his own phone contract out when he recently turned 18. This was one problem after another and he seems to have managed to sort it out himself.

Now, universities running open days have to allow for the fact that each 18 year old will turn up with half their family in tow, that parents increasingly want to speak to admissions tutors more than the potential students and that it has become much more like school admissions in terms of selling to parents not their offspring.

The reason for this is that most of the parents never went to university and have no idea really what it's all about. When i was young hardly any one went to university. I have been on a couple of ds's open days out of curiousity. Some of them the train fares have been horrendous and it was a lot cheaper for DH to drive and him and ds stay in a hotel overnight than for a single fare

[Grennie]

Yes agreed, it is the parents fault, not the children. But sorry Spork, but there has been a change.

And many young people compare themselves to an idealised idea of what life should be like, and then feel cheated when their life doesn't meet it. I grew up as a teenager in Thatcher's Britain. Yes some lucky people made a lot of money. But others grew up in areas like mine with no work, very very run down areas and the Government not giving a damn.

The proportion of adults who went to university then was much much lower. Of course with an expansion in university places, the value of a degree has gone down. I interview people with degrees all the time for very low paid jobs.

[YoucancallmeQueenBee]

Moomin, I think kick back is to be expected.

My DCs are not rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of getting out in the back garden to mow the lawn & sweep up leaves - any more than I am! I'm the first to empathise with them about not wanting to make my bed, hang out the laundry, clean the bathroom fill out a form or any other crappy job that needs to be done, doesn't mean we don't do it though.

TheSpork, interested in your assertion that the older generation purposefully makes life harder for young people. What makes you think that?

[lainiekazan]

Regarding "stuff" then, yes, I think every generation criticises the following one. Kids today can't help it if they have XBoxes and iPhones any more than we could help having... erm, colour telly! Seriously, fil used to go on and on to dh, "I never had the chance to go to university," quite nastily. Well, go back far enough and you get a cave man in a pair of itchy, flea-y furry pants rubbing two sticks together.

But, I do agree with the article and observations elsewhere that this rewarding for nothing business surely has had its day. Schools in recent years have gone sticker crazy and when dd was in infant school the head started assemblies by saying, "Give yourselves a round of applause! You are great!"

[YoucancallmeQueenBee]

Yes, I don't agree with the stuff thing - that is a perennial issue and eventually you end up back to bare hands & two sticks! I don't think it is technology or gadgets or stuff that makes young people helpless at all, just the massive shift in cultural attitudes where they are seen as the nobility of the household to be protected & indulged wherever possible.

[wasabipeanut]

I agree with the tone of the article and I also think there's more to it than life skills, although that is important. It's the terror of failure that worries me. I will not have mine going to pieces when they fail exams/get fired/ screw up a relationship/generally arse something up. We all do at some point and I think what defines you is what you do about it. There seem to be so many straight A's, never failed a thing in their lives type kids out there and I can't help wondering (sadly) how they will cope with adversity in their life.

I had a bit of this when DS1 started year one this year. He hated it - he missed the free play etc. and found the upping of the ante a shock. He asked me to talk to his teacher. I had to explain that, whilst I would let his teacher know he was struggling a bit, he basically had to man up. I was so proud of his response. He basically just got on with it and accepted that he might enjoy some days and activities more than others. He loves it all again now anyway but I think he learned his first lesson that sometimes Mummy can't sort it and you sometimes have to do things you don't like.

[noblegiraffe]

The 'allowing kids to fail' issue is very pertinent in schools. With league tables, targets, teachers at risk of competency procedures if their classes don't all make the grade, kids are absolutely not allowed to fail at school. If a kid is failing to meet their target, then the school will put in place intervention, catch-up, revision sessions etc etc. Teachers bust a gut for these kids. You hear of teachers driving to their houses on the morning of an exam to wake them up, of staying till all hours with them to complete coursework (in extreme cases doing the sodding coursework for them).

This can't be good for them.

[Grennie]

A relative of mine works in a university. They have lots of support in place for anyone with SN including mental health problems. But this includes courses like social work. If you can't cope with the course without lots of additional support, what is the chance you are going to be able to do the job?

[AchyFox]

The older generation in power purposefully makes their life harder for younger people then complains when they can't meet those targets as easily as they did.

Really ?

Surely it is in the economic interests of companies to hire the most able people from whatever generation ?

[Ghostsgowoooh]

I started a thread a while back about dd forgetting her pe kit after being reminded a million times not to forget it. She's in year 7 and the general consensus was that iwbu and a right meanie for refusing to take it in. Apparantly families should help each other out and this is what families do when people forget things. It wouldn't have taught dd anything about responsibility and would have taught her that mum is at beck and call all the time. She hasnt forgot since!

[YoucancallmeQueenBee]

Something not quite following through with this 'fear of failure', given how badly so many kids do at school, when you compare the UK to the rest of Europe.

Also, I don't think it is about academic success or failure, it is about life skills as much as anything

[YoucancallmeQueenBee]

sorry to hear you got a hard time Ghost. I work full-time & there would be no way I would jeopardise my job, to deliver a flipping PE kit! If my DC forget stuff, it is forgotten & they have to cope as best they can for 6 whole hours without it. It is not like they are going to the moon & have forgotten the oxygen tank!

[friday16]

The reason for this is that most of the parents never went to university and have no idea really what it's all about.

That would have been even more the case in the 1980s, when take up amongst that cohort (about 12%) was around five times that of their parents' generation (about 2.5%). Take up now is about 40% if you stretch the definition of "university" to breaking point, so only about three times the takeup of their parents' generation. I don't think expanding takeup is sufficient to explain the number of parents visiting.

And universities in the Russell Group would kill to be able to say "most of the parents never went to university". The low number of first-generation students is a real bone of contention.

Some of them the train fares have been horrendous and it was a lot cheaper for DH to drive and him and ds stay in a hotel overnight than for a single fare

Anyone aged 16-25 is entitled to a 16-25 railcard.

[Arabesque1]

When I was at school As and Bs were very hard to achieve in exams and implied extremely hard work and effort. Nowadays children doing their intermediate and Leaving certificates (Irish equivalent of O and A levels) seem to get strings of As and Bs. I doubt very much that Irish kids have suddenly become incredibly more intelligent than their parent's generation, or that teachers have become remarkably better at their jobs. It is obvious that exams are being marked much more easily and that a pretty average effort now gets you a very high grade.

[YouTheCat]

I remember taking a group of potential students around the uni where I was studying (1989) when I was in my 2nd year. Not one brought their parents. I'd have found it most odd.

I understand wanting to know where our kids might be studying and all that but I think there comes a time when the decision and discovery process is left entirely to the kids.

[capsium]

As parents I think we have to continually manage consequences for behaviour, in terms of what will actually be consequence enough to inform them, without totally traumatising them.

This is different for different people. Not all are as emotionally resilient. However, if this is well managed it can actually encourage emotional resilience.

[Ghostsgowoooh]

Well this is it isn't it, they can cope. If an adult forgot things well it's just tough. My parents never brought stuff in, it would have had an impact on their jobs and I quickly learnt not to forget.

I am a scatterbrain and forgetful but not on that sort of stuff, I've learnt early on to put reminder systems in place so I don't go out the door without items that matter

[wasabipeanut]

I think QueenBee that perhaps the fear of failure being discussed is what leads to seemingly every 16 year old acing their GCSE's while employers complain that youngsters are expecting jobs whilst barely able to put down their phones for 2 minutes and communicate properly. Poor literacy and numeracy skills don't seem to correspond to soaring pass rates.

[eofa1]

The explanation for helpless, precious kids is very visible on MN. Recent threads have:

a) Tried to find a way of accusing a school of being negligent because a child had do do a wee in a wood and might have been a bit cold.

b) Complained about a child being left alone in a school sick room for 5 minutes (apparently she was very, very sad...)

c) Suggested that telling a DC off for hitting other children is "mean".

d) Suggested that telling a DC off with anybody else in the immediate vicinity is unacceptable and "humiliating".

e) Expecting children to follow simple school rules is unreasonable and should always be followed by parent descending on school to explain how school rules shouldn't apply to their DC. (X10)


Etc. etc. etc.....

[eofa1]

Oh, and about 53 threads wondering if it's appropriate to complain to the school because your DC hasn't been made Star of the Week enough.

[bruffin]

Friday, all my friends are turning 50 with dc in their late teens and hardly any stayed on to 6th form let alone to university. I can only think of 2 or 3 people in my school who went . In those days having 5 O'level passes put you in the top 15% of qualifications.

Anyone aged 16-25 is entitled to a 16-25 railcard
I know DS has had one since he was 16, but lefft booking it until a couple of weeks beforehand and the fare to Durham was £100 with the card

Thankfully Nottingham was the day before and they went to both.

[capsium]

You've actually counted them eofe?

Its quite easy to get the balance wrong, you know, when managing consequences for children.

Especially when they are your own, because you love them and the thought of them suffering is too much to bear.

Especially when they are not your own, because there is a danger you might not be involved with them enough, to appreciate they might actually suffer.

[MrsMook]

The school culture is created by politics/ OFSTED and is a game that schools and teachers can't afford to be on the wrong side of. The pressure to get through the curriculum means that children are spoonfed and less independent both in their thinking and in practical skills- even silly things like cutting out.

Having parents at work full time means that parents have to be efficient and that comes at the cost of the child having time to learn through practice. Either that or a parent is at home and has time to be hands on and involved.

The rights culture dominating over responsibilities is a big thing.

We notice at Brownies, that there's a huge range in what the girls are able to do for themselves. Some are very self sufficient. Some have to have help washing their hair at the age of 9.

[mrsjay]

he issue is more about some young people always having had parents who try to protect them from the consequences of their behaviour, and try to make sure that nothing is ever uncomfortable or difficult.


this some dont want their children sad or dissapointed teachers to tell them off, they dont want them to realise there is consequence to their actions , lots of parents treat their children as if they are glass and try to protect their feelings at the cost of the child in the long run