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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wish feel a bit sad that my friends didn't even want to try breastfeeding?

404 replies

ClaireandGeorge · 22/11/2013 08:40

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this.
Saw a friend with her 3 day old baby and she was moaning as her boobs were engorged and sore and I couldn't help but feel a bit sad that, that milk was meant for baby.
I understand a lot of women try and struggle or have problems that mean they can't. I totally get breastfeeding is difficult.
Another friend didn't want to breastfeed as her partner had said her boobs were for sex.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand it's a free world and we can all choose to do as we so wish. I have absolutely nothing against formula and I know plenty of beautiful babies and children that have thrived on it. It's just that it makes me a bit sad that my friends have chosen to ignore mother nature and not even give it a go.

OP posts:
mameulah · 22/11/2013 12:06

yabu

HomeHelpMeGawd · 22/11/2013 12:19

Scrambledsmegs, have you considered telling the HV service what the HV said, and asking to have a different HV next time instead?

I frequently hear this stuff about some HVs giving truly awful health advice. It just seems so weird that someone can first train as a nurse or midwife, and then go on to do substantial extra training as an HV, and then give such appallingly wrong advice. Did they just ignore all their training? It's terrible.

Thatisall · 22/11/2013 12:22

Can you not think about something, speak about it, wonder about it, have an emotional response to it without being judgey?

I think you can.

I didn't feel the OP was judging, more wondering why people don't give it a go?

NotmyusualNN · 22/11/2013 12:48

I just want to say that despite obviously having a different viewpoint than the OP, I agree with Thatisall's above comment that I don't think she was being judgy per se and of course it is fine to wonder about something and start debate based on her own views. For my part I offered an insight into why some people don't want to bf and why the reason given may be not be the full story.

The personal experiences and opinions I have recounted here are more directed towards the people on this thread who admit to being judgy about those who haven't even tried bf unless of course they have medical reason . Several have expressed this kind of viewpoint and it is something I also hear a lot in RL. The problem is that these people stil want women who ff to justify this and explain that they have a medical reason. It is not enough to simply say it is personal choice. By saying that you are happy to exempt those with good reason, you imply that the reason must be explained and if no explanation is given then the woman clearly hasn't been given the fact to make an informed choice. This is where I feel upset, judged and yes I get defensive. In no other area of life other than to do with childrearing are women asked to defend decisions based on medical history and expected to make the background public.

ScrambledSmegs · 22/11/2013 12:49

Actually HomeHelp I've already made complaints about this particular HV before, as she's given some seriously dubious 'advice' - advising leaving a 5 day old to CIO was the moment I realised we were never going to be on the same page. She's still there, nearly four years later, giving out the same interesting child-rearing advice...

TobyLerone · 22/11/2013 12:53

Nobody owes me an explanation for anything they choose to do with their own body, so long as it doesn't affect me.

It doesn't mean I don't reserve the right to a certain opinion on what they're doing if I know for a fact that their reasons are ridiculous (eg 'my breasts are for sex').

I would never express that opinion aloud. And it's a very good point that some people might have reasons they don't wish to talk about and so will state that it was a choice when actually it wasn't.

IceBeing · 22/11/2013 12:56

not There is a point in what you say. Women shouldn't feel they have to justify anything in public or otherwise. That is why there is a massive difference between wondering on a general level why women don't try to BF and asking an actual woman why they didn't. The OP was clear in stating that she never spoke to these women about their choice and so is clearly on the general wondering level.

We should wonder why women in general don't try BF, we certainly shouldn't go asking people we know.

Happily statistics are collected in this area. So we know broadly the reasons. For some it is local societal pressures not to BF. For some it is the sexualization of boobs. For some it is lack of information on the relative merits, expense and faff levels. For others it is medical (both physical and mental) reasons. And a million other reasons as well.

Some of these could potentially be changed to allow new mums a fairer crack at the decision. Some can't.

NotmyusualNN · 22/11/2013 13:00

not There is a point in what you say. Women shouldn't feel they have to justify anything in public or otherwise. That is why there is a massive difference between wondering on a general level why women don't try to BF and asking an actual woman why they didn't. The OP was clear in stating that she never spoke to these women about their choice and so is clearly on the general wondering level.

Exactly - I was trying to clarify that I was happy to engage in discussion with the OP and likeminded people whom I think are curious rather than judgy (and as such the judgy comments towards her are wrong) but that other people on the thread - and in RL - have expressed more judgy and hurtful comments and so my exasperation is directed at those viewpoints and not the OP.

Thatisall · 22/11/2013 13:00

I actually think it would be really helpful to have open discussion about the reasons why women choose not to try breast feeding without it becoming a ff v bf grudge match.

IceBeing · 22/11/2013 13:04

well it isn't too late to try! BF/FF thread tend to calm down after the first 200 posts of ranting.....

I would be interested in calculating the carbon foot print of BF v. FF. It may not be as one sided as I think it is....

Especially if you factor in the plastic breast pump and gubbins required if you end up expressing much.

Thatisall · 22/11/2013 13:07

ice not all bf mums express!! Don't start another row lol.

Thatisall · 22/11/2013 13:07

ice not all bf mums express!! Don't start another row lol.

FudgefaceMcZ · 22/11/2013 13:09

YANBU, though it would be mean to say anything to them I think. I do wonder how many of the people saying it's not your business would also say it wasn't your business if someone was fat, or their kids were (as I notice some of the YABU posters also engage in fat!wank on a regular basis)- obviously both are similar in terms of having indirect effects on health for both mother and child, so in a sense it is 'society's business, though obviously not to act on in a twattish way, like most things to do with other people's bodies I suppose. Wish people would apply that principle on other topics though...

HomeHelpMeGawd · 22/11/2013 13:18

Scrambled, I'm sorry to hear that. If the employer won't take your complaints seriously, and if you're sufficiently concerned about them, you could pursue through the regulator, the NMC.

The HV appears to have broken the code of conduct
www.nmc-uk.org/Publications/Standards/The-code/Provide-a-high-standard-of-practice-and-care-at-all-times-/
Specifically: "35. You must deliver care based on the best available evidence or best practice."

You can get a quick view by calling the NMC fitness to practise team on 020 7462 5800 / 5801

carovioletfizz · 22/11/2013 13:19

I agree op, I've thought that before about mums who choose not to BF. It seems such a waste.

BigToesofFrog · 22/11/2013 13:24

Not read whole thread in detail but I knew you would get some nasty responses.

It's possible to accept that people make their own choices, while also being sad that the baby did not get a chance to BF. I really can't see what's wrong with that thought.

A lot of effort goes into encouraging people to BF and that is for a reason - because it is better for the baby (as well as having some benefits for the mother).

However I think it might actually be easier for people to countenance trying it, if the debate wasn't so polarised. I was very keen to BF, I fought through a LOT of very difficult problems to do it, and I succeeded, twice over. But I was very annoyed with people (including well-meaning HCPs) who said things like "It doesn't hurt, if it hurts you're doing it wrong". It did fucking hurt, it hurt so much I was constantly in tears, and once when a MW rubbed my back hard in sympathy and to distract me from the pain as DD latched on, I could have kissed her because no one else was acknowledging to me that it hurt.

"Everyone will make just as much milk as their baby needs" - is bollocks. I know farmers who know for sure this is not true with animals, so why would humans be different? There ARE supply issues for some people and those who deny it make trying to BF so much harder.

And the disapproval and horror if you resort to ANY formula, as if you've failed and might as well throw in the towel, is not fair. Mixed BF is better than no BF if that's what you can manage. I was FF as a baby and I'm still here. Formula helped newborn DS regain some badly needed weight after 3 days of hopeless BF disasters and exhaustion for both him and me. I went on to BF fully after that, so why the tutting I got from earth mother types?

And while BF is in many ways great, it is also demanding of you and your body, it's messy, and for some people it takes courage to overcome the embarrassment or negative attitudes of those around them. No they shouldn't be embarrassed, but sometimes they are and that should be understood.

Finally, with DC2, I saw a very experienced BF counsellor who immediately identified my issue - my nipples are an awkward shape/size for a tiny baby's mouth. She explained that's why it all fell into place when they were 3-4 months - because the baby had grown big enough. Suddenly it all made sense. Because someone actually finally was willing to admit we're not all made the same and it's not true that we can all BF perfectly if we just put our mind to it.

You see a lot of the things I was told obviously still rankle - and I'm strongly pro BF! I do think it is often handled really badly and I am not surprised some people just want steer clear of the whole shebang.

That is sad, but I don't think we can just blame those people.

cantthinkofagoodone · 22/11/2013 13:28

I agree with posters who say that BFing is unusual in our society.

When I was last away with the girls, 2 were already Mums and the other 7 were all very skeptical about BFing. They just thought it was gross - one spoke in horror about another friend who was still BFing at 9 months and the general group were very surprised when I mentioned that it is recommended until 2 years old.

Most said that they would only BF for a week or two. No mention of pain or expected difficulty.

I did try to BF but didn't think that much about it beforehand. I happened to hate it so only did 6 weeks but might have been more motivated if I knew more about the benefits.

ClaireandGeorge · 22/11/2013 13:29

I hope I haven't upset anyone. I guess I forget that others aren' t as thick skinned as me. We all will get judged as we go through life. I have receivedHmm from friends for keeping ds in same room as me for 8 months and not leaving him for a night out till he was well over a year. It generally doesn't bother me tbh.
I didn't want to start a bf vs ff debate just curious if others felt the same.
I hope a new mum who was looking for pros and cons for bf and ff wouldn't look on aibu for the information.
I didn't and never would say anything to the mum in question and have really tried to be supportive to het ad she's had a rough time. When she said her boobs were sore and engorged anf had mine been like that all I said was thankfully no but that I'd heard cold cabbage leaves in your bra were meant to help.

OP posts:
monicalewinski · 22/11/2013 13:32

YABU.

I ff because I chose to, not because I couldn't bf. I was perfectly happy with my choice then and am perfectly happy with it 11 years on.

If I had had people 'feeling sad' around me at the time I would have told them to piss off and mind their own business.

Mothers judging other mothers for their choices, which we each make based on our own life and experiences 'make me sad'.

For this reason I now 'feel a bit sad' because of your thread.

NothinToSeeHere · 22/11/2013 13:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ClaireandGeorge · 22/11/2013 13:41

Also to add again I am not against ff from birth. Totally fine imo.
I think I've realised what made me feel like that was more for myself. The baby was small just like my ds who is now a very boisterous 2yo and I'm very broody. I think now the sad feeling may have been for myself. I have been a bit wobbly with my hormones of late.

OP posts:
cantthinkofagoodone · 22/11/2013 13:47

Wow Nothin that was quite the horrible post in itself. Quite a lot of FFers do feel guilty about it. Is your reasoning that if you can't beat them, join them?

It is normal to feel defensive if a choice that you made is apparently second best and makes people feel sad for your poor baby.

cantthinkofagoodone · 22/11/2013 13:48

Claire FWIW, I'm glad that you enjoyed BFing. Now go get pregnant Wink

NotYoMomma · 22/11/2013 13:49

I always say I had two options

ff
or
pnd and a shaken baby.

bf gave me panic attacks.

obviously its something you admit online but its much harder to admit to mental health issues face to face, therefore my default answer was 'it wasnt for me.'

I dont think anyone should ever have to justify their feeding choices

women have rights over their own body and mind. you woukdnt quiz a woman who had just had an abortion as to her reasons.

its personal and not your business and can be a very distressing and sensitive subject

monicalewinski · 22/11/2013 13:54

ClaireandGeorge if you are feeling a bit hormonal and wobbly then I have some v important advice for you:

Steer well clear of all the charity adverts on tv (the ones where 'for just £2 per week you can save.... "

Towards the end of my 2nd pregnancy I got so hormonal and upset by them I ended up signing up to loads - it wasn't until we got the bank statement that my husband realised just how many I had signed up to (I kept a couple of them on, but sadly had to cancel all the rest, but I just got so unbelievably tearful about everything).

(I still think yabu, but I'm not actually angry - I'm sorry if I came across like that).

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